Va Dominion Summer division's almost here

[changer banger]

I understand that the schedule will be determined tonight by draw from a hat.

Why is this a bad thing?

[KT12]

I understand that the schedule will be determined tonight by draw from a hat.

Why is this a bad thing?

yeah i agree. why is that a bad thing? that's the fairest way to do it.

the full schedule is out now. and looky looky. fwb is still played Scared Kickless (KA) that last game of the season, just like last time and just like they wanted.

[changer banger]

the full schedule is out now. and looky looky. fwb is still played Scared Kickless (KA) that last game of the season, just like last time and just like they wanted.

... shocker.

[KT12]

the full schedule is out now. and looky looky. fwb is still played Scared Kickless (KA) that last game of the season, just like last time and just like they wanted.

... shocker.

i know i know. it was drawn out of a hat last night and it randomly ended that way. ha ha. go figure.

[JellyDogg]

I understand that the schedule will be determined tonight by draw from a hat.

Why is this a bad thing?

yeah i agree. why is that a bad thing? that's the fairest way to do it.

the full schedule is out now. and looky looky. fwb is still played Scared Kickless (KA) that last game of the season, just like last time and just like they wanted.

Didn't say it was a bad thing, but I definitely think some consideration should be given to long-time rivals, and such. Apparently, the hat thought that as well

[KT12]

I understand that the schedule will be determined tonight by draw from a hat.

Why is this a bad thing?

yeah i agree. why is that a bad thing? that's the fairest way to do it.

the full schedule is out now. and looky looky. fwb is still played Scared Kickless (KA) that last game of the season, just like last time and just like they wanted.

Didn't say it was a bad thing, but I definitely think some consideration should be given to long-time rivals, and such. Apparently, the hat thought that as well

i'm sorry, but you think it's fair to fix a schedule so preference is given to "long-time rivals"? that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. a fair shot should be given to everyone. if you play them the first game, so be it- if you are as good as you think you are, then you should be able to do just fine that first game. and not to mention- fwb barely played in dominion before this. i would hardly say you guys are long-time rivals. just 2 good teams.

[changer banger]

Didn't say it was a bad thing, but I definitely think some consideration should be given to long-time rivals, and such. Apparently, the hat thought that as well

Agree with KT12 on this - why should 'older' teams get preference over others?

[JellyDogg]

i'm sorry, but you think it's fair to fix a schedule so preference is given to "long-time rivals"? that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. a fair shot should be given to everyone. if you play them the first game, so be it- if you are as good as you think you are, then you should be able to do just fine that first game. and not to mention- fwb barely played in dominion before this. i would hardly say you guys are long-time rivals. just 2 good teams.

In many other divisions, they usually go out of their way to make sure the competitive teams in the division don't play each other the first week. Some teams play to go to the bar, some teams play to get a little exercise, and some teams play to win. That's why when it comes to the games, schedule preference is usually given to the teams that care most about that aspect. Similarly, many "bar" teams get more early games in many divisions, so they can get to the debauchery they so eagerly crave. I don't think it's a bad thing to give teams higher priorities in the aspects of the kickball experience they deem most important to them.

Also, I wouldn't call it "fixing" the schedule, because often times in larger divisions they make sure all/most of the "good" teams play each other (thus having a more difficult schedule) while the newbs/bad teams play a more recreational schedule. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either.

Having said all that, I think the schedule came out just fine, so you got your "randomness," and I got my "preference." Everybody's happy now... right?

[changer banger]

Fair points, all of them. However...

Also, I wouldn't call it "fixing" the schedule, because often times in larger divisions they make sure all/most of the "good" teams play each other (thus having a more difficult schedule) while the newbs/bad teams play a more recreational schedule.

... is the exact defitinion of fixing a schedule.

I can guarantee you that when this practice is done, not all captains are on board with it (much less notified). I realize that it's the board that ultimately makes these decisions, but doing something without support (or knowledge) of the captains is pretty shameful.

Also, some newb/bad teams may actually want to play the tougher teams and some of the better teams might want to play the newb/bad teams.

[KT12]

Fair points, all of them. However...

Also, I wouldn't call it "fixing" the schedule, because often times in larger divisions they make sure all/most of the "good" teams play each other (thus having a more difficult schedule) while the newbs/bad teams play a more recreational schedule.

... is the exact defitinion of fixing a schedule.

I can guarantee you that when this practice is done, not all captains are on board with it (much less notified). I realize that it's the board that ultimately makes these decisions, but doing something without support (or knowledge) of the captains is pretty shameful.

Also, some newb/bad teams may actually want to play the tougher teams and some of the better teams might want to play the newb/bad teams.

my thoughts exactly. and how do you classify who the "more competitive teams" are? we've got a whole bunch of new teams this season. how do you rank some teams over other teams when the season hasn't started yet? for example, last season, fwb and ka got paired up together to play the last game of the season, apparently b/c they were the 2 "best" teams. yeah, it might have turned out that way, but the blazers tied fwb during the regular season and lost by one in the playoffs. we had never even played fwb before, so how did you know fwb was the better team before the season even started? that's what i'm talking about when i say fair chance. and i agree with eddie. i bet in most divisions, the board or A person usually decides this stuff without consulting any of teams, let alone the new ones.

[FearTheFro]

In a division where everybody plays everybody, why not "fix" the schedule based on what you know about the teams? If there's a brand new team and they have a name like "Bunting Is For Homos, Let's Just Get Drunk", you may not want to have them open the season with FWB, Blazers, and KA right off the bat, when there's a perfectly good Fannie Kickers for them to play. One of the worst things that can happen is for a less competitive team to get shell-shocked the first couple weeks and then not want to come back afterward.

I get all the Team Awesome girls mixed up, which one are you?

[KT12]

In a division where everybody plays everybody, why not "fix" the schedule based on what you know about the teams? If there's a brand new team and they have a name like "Bunting Is For Homos, Let's Just Get Drunk", you may not want to have them open the season with FWB, Blazers, and KA right off the bat, when there's a perfectly good Fannie Kickers for them to play. One of the worst things that can happen is for a less competitive team to get shell-shocked the first couple weeks and then not want to come back afterward.

I get all the Team Awesome girls mixed up, which one are you?

shut it, i'm not playing that game anymore with you. ha ha.

i just completely disagree with you guys.

If a new team plays against a "KA" the first round of games, that's just the "bad" luck of the draw and it's part of kickball. besides, most of us explain to the new teams that not ALL the teams are crazy good like that.

let's just put it like this. i just find if really really convenient that during the 2nd week of last season, when FWB had a bye, several of their players were out of town. none of the other teams had the opportunity to organize the schedule around their personal life. that would also be referred to as "fixing" a schedule and people noticed it. just like they did with the last game of the season match-up.

no one's angry about it, but a lot of people just want to do it the fair way this time around.

[JellyDogg]

Let me try to tackle each one of these points...

I can guarantee you that when this practice is done, not all captains are on board with it (much less notified). I realize that it's the board that ultimately makes these decisions, but doing something without support (or knowledge) of the captains is pretty shameful.

Name me one thing you can get all captains to agree on? Name me one thing you can even get all captains to respond to? Most of the time, the BoD can only infer what teams want. The best thing the board can do is try to give as many of the teams as much of what they want as they can. The point is for everybody to have fun, and different teams have different ideas of what "fun" is to them.

Also, some newb/bad teams may actually want to play the tougher teams and some of the better teams might want to play the newb/bad teams.

I've never heard of a division where none of the tough teams played newb/bad teams and none of the newb/bad teams played tough teams--the ratio was just different for each set. Having said that, it is extremely rare for newb/bad teams to want to play tough teams. Every year in Alexandria, we have new/bad teams that consider quitting when they play Gonzo, because that's not what most new teams sign up for. They don't consider that type of competition "fun," while the Gonzo's of the world don't consider playing against crappy teams "fun." The point is for everyone to have fun, and in my experience that never happens when a tough team plays a newb/bad team.

and how do you classify who the "more competitive teams" are? we've got a whole bunch of new teams this season. how do you rank some teams over other teams when the season hasn't started yet?

There are some teams that are known because they have a history. When KA signs up, you know what you're getting. They're not going 1-9. Even "new" teams are often new only to that division, and have a history in other divisions. If a team is truly "new" (haven't played kickball before), then they usually don't fare well in competitive games. Is it true 100% of the time? No, but it's true a vast majority of the time.

for example, last season, fwb and ka got paired up together to play the last game of the season, apparently b/c they were the 2 "best" teams. yeah, it might have turned out that way, but the blazers tied fwb during the regular season and lost by one in the playoffs. we had never even played fwb before, so how did you know fwb was the better team before the season even started?

Again, there is history there. Not just in Dominion past, but because the two teams compete on a national level, and have proven themselves there (KA with a more distinguished record, of course). The two teams are continuing as contenders on the national scene, as well. Blazers are (were?) a very good team, but having never played nationally (or playing FWB) it would be hard to argue for equivalent standing going in.

In the end, no, the scheduling doesn't really matter. We'll play who we play when we're scheduled to play them, and whether we win or lose it won't be because of the schedule. But it is nice to have a tune-up game first

Dang, this post is long. It's downright Biranesque

[JellyDogg]

let's just put it like this. i just find if really really convenient that during the 2nd week of last season, when FWB had a bye, several of their players were out of town. none of the other teams had the opportunity to organize the schedule around their personal life.

Maybe they were out of town because we had a bye...

no one's angry about it, but a lot of people just want to do it the fair way this time around.

I definitely detect some bitterness, if not anger. This discussion has lasted too long to just be a simple difference of opinion on division scheduling practices (as fascinating a topic as it would seem to be)

[KT12]

let's just put it like this. i just find if really really convenient that during the 2nd week of last season, when FWB had a bye, several of their players were out of town. none of the other teams had the opportunity to organize the schedule around their personal life.

Maybe they were out of town because we had a bye...

no one's angry about it, but a lot of people just want to do it the fair way this time around.

I definitely detect some bitterness, if not anger. This discussion has lasted too long to just be a simple difference of opinion on division scheduling practices (as fascinating a topic as it would seem to be)

to your first point. yeah um, i highly doubt it.

all i know is that there has been b*tching going on as to how paul did the schedule this time and it's annoying, b/c it's the absolute fairest way to do it. that's the only reason this all came up in the first place.

secondly, it wouldn't be so long of a thread if you'd just admit eddie and i are right? ha ha.

[JellyDogg]

to your first point. yeah um, i highly doubt it.

all i know is that there has been b*tching going on as to how paul did the schedule this time and it's annoying, b/c it's the absolute fairest way to do it. that's the only reason this all came up in the first place.

secondly, it wouldn't be so long of a thread if you'd just admit eddie and i are right? ha ha.

Don't put me on the "b*tching" list. I plan to save all my best b*tching at Paul for much more random/less relevant things for no particular reason.

I would also gladly admit you and Eddie are right, except my mom taught me never to lie

[-APBT-]

The only team KA considers a "rival" is the team we are playing. We don't think any team is more or less important then the next. If other teams want to look at KA that way, great but that's all on them. I really like the guys/gals on FWB and this is no disrespect to you all or any other team, it's just the way KA is/was and always will be.

I don't care who we play, when or where we play them, my only question is WHO'S NEXT!?

[JellyDogg]

I don't care who we play, when or where we play them, my only question is WHO'S NEXT!?

The answer is Ahh Damn, and I hear they say Scared Kickless is too old and weak to hang with them (poor Ahh Damn )

The only thing I'm disappointed in is we don't get Gonzo during the season.

[changer banger]

Well articulated counter-points. Time for (counter)^2-points...

Name me one thing you can get all captains to agree on? Name me one thing you can even get all captains to respond to? Most of the time, the BoD can only infer what teams want. The best thing the board can do is try to give as many of the teams as much of what they want as they can. The point is for everybody to have fun, and different teams have different ideas of what "fun" is to them.

One thing captains agree to - start times for games in DC Monument during the fall when daylight becomes a concern. One thing all captains respond to - see previous statement. Also, there's been feedback by all captains (in DCMD as well as Capital and Federal when I played) on mid-season/end-of-season parties and ideas for themes. That being said, you're right in that most things will not get a unanimous vote of confidence (but a huge key is including them in the discussion process)... however, most of the (ten) boards that I have been a part of, whenever some question regarding the division has come up, all captains are contacted and all are badgered until they respond.

I've never heard of a division where none of the tough teams played newb/bad teams and none of the newb/bad teams played tough teams--the ratio was just different for each set. Having said that, it is extremely rare for newb/bad teams to want to play tough teams. Every year in Alexandria, we have new/bad teams that consider quitting when they play Gonzo, because that's not what most new teams sign up for. They don't consider that type of competition "fun," while the Gonzo's of the world don't consider playing against crappy teams "fun." The point is for everyone to have fun, and in my experience that never happens when a tough team plays a newb/bad team.

That's a bit of an extreme example. Insisting on that ratio, though, and making it happen means that you're treating teams differently. I realize that it's impossible in a division where a true round robin can't take place to have a completely fair schedule - someone's going to get the shaft. That's why making such a schedule as random as possible can placate as many people as possible - no one can assign blame, per se.

Also, to use KT12's example, what if the FWB-KA tilt from the spring wasn't a 1-2 matchup to decide the regular season champion? I just think it's a bit presumptuous.

I've been on plenty of good teams, and seen plenty of other good teams, enjoy playing many a newb/bad team mostly because the level of stress is severely reduced (I love playing against KUI and Afternoon Delight in Monument - I believe their combined overall win % is something on the order of .250). Likewise, I've seen plenty of bad teams totally yuk it up against better teams (1-2-3 had a blast against KA by playing theme songs for all of us) and a team dressed entirely like me against Gym Class (though, admittedly, it was a bit creepy after the second inning).

And Gonzo...? Uhm, they're just in a world by themselves.

Bottom line, having a randomized schedule makes things as fair as possible with the least amount of hassle and leaves the least amount of room for whining.

[You Know Me]

I agree with everybody. You all make good points. However, I know for a fact that Aaron's statment about not getting any more amped or anxious for one team from another is not true. At least one or two games that KA played in the Spring season...

...O'Doyle Rules!!!

[JellyDogg]

Eddie, you've got some good captains in whatever divisions you've been on the board then.

My experience with divisions where you can't have a round robin regular season has taught me that random schedules lead to the most complaining, not the least. Team A is upset because they have to play Team B when Team C doesn't, and so on and so forth.

Can we all at least agree that there is no perfect way to do the schedule? You and Katy like randomness to eliminate any (perceived) biases, I like a schedule that tries to accommodate as much of the division as possible in terms of what their individual teams are there for. Both methods have pros and cons. My method is just better

[FearTheFro]

You and Katy like randomness to eliminate any (perceived) biases, I like a schedule that tries to accommodate as much of the division as possible in terms of what their individual teams are there for. Both methods have pros and cons. My method is just better

Katy's method is way hotter than yours.

[You Know Me]

You and Katy like randomness to eliminate any (perceived) biases, I like a schedule that tries to accommodate as much of the division as possible in terms of what their individual teams are there for. Both methods have pros and cons. My method is just better

Katy's method is way hotter than yours.

Agreed, she's totally hotter than you, Mark, no question.

[JellyDogg]

You and Katy like randomness to eliminate any (perceived) biases, I like a schedule that tries to accommodate as much of the division as possible in terms of what their individual teams are there for. Both methods have pros and cons. My method is just better

Katy's method is way hotter than yours.

Agreed, she's totally hotter than you, Mark, no question.

Please, I keep having to tell Paul that I don't swing that way.

Darn this sexy body!! Darn it to HECK!!

[FWB_Brian]

Boy, I've always been nice to KT and the Blazers (Team Awesome) but you guys really have a chip on your shoulder towards FWB that I don't get.
1) Eddie. A lot of decisions have already been made this season without captain or even board approval and I'm the VP! But that's fairly standard from what I've seen and besides, committees are normally the worst way to get things done, unless there is a serious trust issue with the dictatorship (and I trust Paul).
2) 1st Lady Katy, those are some harsh words. Please don't throw stones when you sleep with the brick house
3) Both ways of doing the schedule turned out "fair" results. The schedule last season was reviewed by the board and multiple suggestions and subsequent changes were made. I never made any decision unilaterally. No criticism of fairness was ever raised until now, on a public message board. To come on here and say a lot of people had a problem with it is sketchy, considering the number of people who could have weighed in on the way things were set up and DID weigh in on other details of the schedule.

Since you play each team twice, random draw isn't such a big deal. So it is really a moot point for this fall season.

[KT12]

Boy, I've always been nice to KT and the Blazers (Team Awesome) but you guys really have a chip on your shoulder towards FWB that I don't get.
1) Eddie. A lot of decisions have already been made this season without captain or even board approval and I'm the VP! But that's fairly standard from what I've seen and besides, committees are normally the worst way to get things done, unless there is a serious trust issue with the dictatorship (and I trust Paul).
2) 1st Lady Katy, those are some harsh words. Please don't throw stones when you sleep with the brick house
3) Both ways of doing the schedule turned out "fair" results. The schedule last season was reviewed by the board and multiple suggestions and subsequent changes were made. I never made any decision unilaterally. No criticism of fairness was ever raised until now, on a public message board. To come on here and say a lot of people had a problem with it is sketchy, considering the number of people who could have weighed in on the way things were set up and DID weigh in on other details of the schedule.

Since you play each team twice, random draw isn't such a big deal. So it is really a moot point for this fall season.

OK let's just get one thing straight. We DO NOT have a chip on our shoulders when it comes to FWB. I like all of you guys and I know the rest of the Blazers/team AWESOME do too. This discussion started out about how a schedule is made and turned into something else. Probably my fault for that, and I'm sorry Brian, I didn't mean to throw you under the bus, it wasn't my intention, I was just not so graciously trying to prove a point. This site seems to be getting me into trouble so I should probably hold back from posting anymore!

Next, about that jab with the reference to the brick house- dude, i've been sitting here for over an hour trying to figure that one out and I think I finally got it. But I'm still a little confused, am I not allowed to speak my mind then? B/c if that's the case, I'll dump his ass so quick...

Brian, we've already talked about this off-line, but again, sorry that this was discussed on a public message board. It wasn't my attention to attack FWB, more so just the argument that was being made.

[FearTheFro]

... am I not allowed to speak my mind then? B/c if that's the case, I'll dump his ass so quick...

Oh, HELL no!! I know you ain't bout to let no MAN hold you down!! Drop his sorry ass and speak yo mind, girl!!

[-APBT-]

I agree with everybody. You all make good points. However, I know for a fact that Aaron's statment about not getting any more amped or anxious for one team from another is not true. At least one or two games that KA played in the Spring season...

...O'Doyle Rules!!!

I really don't get more amped to play one team or another, more serious, sure. Troy, you know me pretty well, to know I am an intense person ALL the time and the only time I relax is when we are up by 5 or more. I make it a point to come out and play at the same level no matter who we are playing, but I will let off when we get up on some of the "fun" teams when we are up, but that doesn't mean when it's 0-0 that I'm not amped.

Honestly, I get the most amped when I know that I am going to get on the mound at some point and have the opportunity to take over the game, with help from my team of course. Picking people off at third when trying to get the extra base if fun, but it doesn't quite stack up to pitching.

KT12, please show Sunshine this message or let him know about it during pillow talk time!

[JellyDogg]

This site seems to be getting me into trouble so I should probably hold back from posting anymore!

Getting in trouble is half the fun of the site...

[changer banger]

My method is just better

I humbly disagree - you do realize that there's only one way to solve this, right? It involves a lot of beer, some cups, maybe a quarter, strawberry jelly, probably some ping pong balls, and a donkey.

See you tonight. I'll go to the CVS early. You find a donkey.

[JellyDogg]

My method is just better

I humbly disagree - you do realize that there's only one way to solve this, right? It involves a lot of beer, some cups, maybe a quarter, strawberry jelly, probably some ping pong balls, and a donkey.

See you tonight. I'll go to the CVS early. You find a donkey.

Sounds fair

[You Know Me]

My method is just better

I humbly disagree - you do realize that there's only one way to solve this, right? It involves a lot of beer, some cups, maybe a quarter, strawberry jelly, probably some ping pong balls, and a donkey.

See you tonight. I'll go to the CVS early. You find a donkey.

Ok, I totally understand everything else, but what are you going to do with the quarter?

[FearTheFro]

My method is just better

I humbly disagree - you do realize that there's only one way to solve this, right? It involves a lot of beer, some cups, maybe a quarter, strawberry jelly, probably some ping pong balls, and a donkey.

See you tonight. I'll go to the CVS early. You find a donkey.

Ok, I totally understand everything else, but what are you going to do with the quarter?

Make a phone call from jail.

[changer banger]

Ok, I totally understand everything else, but what are you going to do with the quarter?

I don't know - i had to throw something random in there, and I chose a quarter.

[FearTheFro]

Any scores from Wed. night?

(AKA Dominion Lite)

[You Know Me]

Any scores from Wed. night?

(AKA Dominion Lite)

Oznog 2 vs DOD 0
Looking to score 1 vs Moby kicks 0
Jager bombs 7 vs Reston kickers 0

[FearTheFro]

Any scores from Wed. night?

(AKA Dominion Lite)

Oznog 2 vs DOD 0
Looking to score 1 vs Moby kicks 0
Jager bombs 7 vs Reston kickers 0

dang.

Oznog needs some

[FWB_Brian]

DOD supposedly was going to be improved this year. They played us tough when we were short-handed last season. I expect they'll compete for the #2 spot on Wed night.

[You Know Me]

DOD supposedly was going to be improved this year. They played us tough when we were short-handed last season. I expect they'll compete for the #2 spot on Wed night.

Naw, Oznog had most of their core people at the beach this week. The'yre still the team to beat on Wednesdays. Jager Bombs will give them a run, but I doubt they can beat a regular Gonzo squad. Demon's are most likely 3rd, unless they drop the ball and lose some crazy one's.

[FearTheFro]

DOD supposedly was going to be improved this year. They played us tough when we were short-handed last season. I expect they'll compete for the #2 spot on Wed night.

Naw, Oznog had most of their core people at the beach this week. The'yre still the team to beat on Wednesdays. Jager Bombs will give them a run, but I doubt they can beat a regular Gonzo squad. Demon's are most likely 3rd, unless they drop the ball and lose some crazy one's.

What color is Gonzo this season?