NY ELITE TEAMS AND GOOD FIELDS

[Daiquiri Dematas]

I figured it needed it's own thread, I'll have some time in like three weeks, I'm going to find out how hard it really is to get a good field in NYC.

[Kickbot]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

[Daiquiri Dematas]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

Off the grid league?

[BigEasy]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

Off the grid league?

I think he means something similar to what was proposed in the summer, more of a pick up league not endorsed or supported by any organization. More or less a "pick up" league. I'm just guessing though.

[Daiquiri Dematas]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

Off the grid league?

I think he means something similar to what was proposed in the summer, more of a pick up league not endorsed or supported by any organization. More or less a "pick up" league. I'm just guessing though.

K, either way, I'm going to find out after my grad school is over, I'll get to the bottom of it, one way or another.

[Kickbot]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

Off the grid league?

I think he means something similar to what was proposed in the summer, more of a pick up league not endorsed or supported by any organization. More or less a "pick up" league. I'm just guessing though.

Sort of. Thought not pick up games. I'd imagine teams would be established ahead of time and it would be organized and properly run, but without all the hassles and expense of a WAKA league. I'd like to be able to set team sizes, try out new players, choose our own equipment and modify rules to suit a more competitive game.

[AmericanMike]

We can call it the OAK League.
Overly Aggressive Kickball League.

[Daiquiri Dematas]

If you can find a field, we could set up a nice off the grid league.

Off the grid league?

I think he means something similar to what was proposed in the summer, more of a pick up league not endorsed or supported by any organization. More or less a "pick up" league. I'm just guessing though.

Sort of. Thought not pick up games. I'd imagine teams would be established ahead of time and it would be organized and properly run, but without all the hassles and expense of a WAKA league. I'd like to be able to set team sizes, try out new players, choose our own equipment and modify rules to suit a more competitive game.

I know in the Spring, there are 8 teams that sign up in a flash to play on Thurs in the worst fields at CP at $75 with at least 20 players on each team. My math tells me that is $12,000. You give me $12,000 and I'm pretty sure I can get a top notch field, enough PG balls, bases, get some people to throw some good parties, get whatever else we need, and have some money left over.

[C-meth]

I know in the Spring, there are 8 teams that sign up in a flash to play on Thurs in the worst fields at CP at $75 with at least 20 players on each team. My math tells me that is $12,000. You give me $12,000 and I'm pretty sure I can get a top notch field, enough PG balls, bases, get some people to throw some good parties, get whatever else we need, and have some money left over.

How much are permits?

[Daiquiri Dematas]

I know in the Spring, there are 8 teams that sign up in a flash to play on Thurs in the worst fields at CP at $75 with at least 20 players on each team. My math tells me that is $12,000. You give me $12,000 and I'm pretty sure I can get a top notch field, enough PG balls, bases, get some people to throw some good parties, get whatever else we need, and have some money left over.

How much are permits?

I'm going to find out all this bs when Grad school is done in like three weeks.

[C-meth]

I know in the Spring, there are 8 teams that sign up in a flash to play on Thurs in the worst fields at CP at $75 with at least 20 players on each team. My math tells me that is $12,000. You give me $12,000 and I'm pretty sure I can get a top notch field, enough PG balls, bases, get some people to throw some good parties, get whatever else we need, and have some money left over.

How much are permits?

I'm going to find out all this bs when Grad school is done in like three weeks.

[AmericanMike]

1. Each group of players using a field or court must purchase and possess a permit. Parks and Recreation reserves the right to request that the players provide proof of approved ballfield or court use.
2. The permittee is responsible for the conduct of anyone playing under this permit and will be liable for damages to persons or property arising from such conduct.
3. This permit is not valid unless embossed with an official Parks seal.
4. This permit may not be transferred or resold. Any violation of this provision will result in revocation of all permits issued to the permittee.
5. Permits are not available for practice sessions.
6. This permit is terminable at will by the Commissioner of Parks.
7. Parks retains the right to temporarily suspend this permit, or to change the permit location. The agency will make reasonable efforts to provide an alternate location.
8. The granting of this permit does not give the permittee the right to sell or offer for sale any articles, tickets, or refreshments, within or adjacent to the park. Any sales require a separate Temporary Use authorization issued by Parks' Revenue Division. There is a fee required for a Temporary Use Authorization.
9. Alcoholic beverages may not be sold or consumed on Parks property except where designated by sign or special permit.
10. Barbequeing and the use of propane tanks are prohibited except where designated by sign or special permit.
11. Motor vehicles may not be brought into or operated in any area of a park, except in designated areas.
12. Littering is prohibited. Teams must leave the field or court free of litter and debris.
13. Noncommercial literature or pamphlets may not be distributed within or adjacent to any park area, except from a fixed location approved by Parks and specified in this permit.
14. Commercial literature, signage, or advertising material of any kind may not be posted, placed or distributed at the courts or ballfields, unless such permission is granted by Parks.
15. The agency reserves the right to require a permittee to post a bond or other security to ensure compliance with these rules.
16. This permit may be terminated if the field or court is reserved but not used.
17. In addition to the above terms and conditions, permittees are required to comply with all other rules of the City of New York/Parks and Recreation, including but not limited to Section 2-09 of Title 56 of the Rules of the City of New York.
18. Violation of any rules will result in revocation of all permits and/or other sanctions including a summons to appear in civil court or criminal court.
19. Permittees should call the Borough Permit Office in advance if unable to use any assigned time sessions, so that the agency can try to accomodate others who wish to use the field or court.
2-12 Basketball, Baseball, Softball, Cricket, Roller Hockey and Volleyball
(a) Permit Applications

(1) Those who wish to reserve a court, rink or ballfield ("sports facility") under the jurisdiction or management of the Department for the sports of basketball, baseball, softball, cricket, roller hockey, and volleyball must obtain a written permit from the Department. If an individual is applying for a permit on behalf of a group or athletic league, he or she must so designate on the permit. Only one individual may apply for a permit per group or athletic league.

(2) The completed application must be received by the Department no later than March 1 of each year. Later applications will be filled on a space available basis.

(3) The completed application must include a list of all sports facilities requested.

(4) The Department reserves the right to require a clean up bond and/or personal liability insurance for the event/game, naming the City of New York as co-insured. The factors to be considered in requiring a bond and/or insurance are:
(i) estimated number of spectators to attend sessions,
(ii) involvement of vendors (where permitted by the Department),
(iii) past history of league/event.

(5) Admission tickets, refreshments or any other articles may not be sold or offered for sale within or adjacent to any park area without the prior written authorization of the Department.

(b) Permits

(1) The permittee must confine sports activities to the locations and times specified on the permit.

(2) The permittee shall remain subject to the Rules of the Department, the specific terms of the permit, and to all rules, regulations and laws of all City, State and Federal departments insofar as applicable.

(3) The permittee must clean and restore the premises after each session.

(4) Pamphlets, handbills, or advertising material of any kind may not be posted, placed or distributed at the courts or ballfields, unless written permission is granted by the Department.

(5) The permittee must have in his/her possession at the time and site of the reserved session the permit for the use of the sports facility and any other permits or documents required by the Department or any other City agency for proposed activities at the session.

(6) The permittee is liable for all damage or injury to property or persons that may occur or be caused by the use of the permit, and by accepting the permit the permittee agrees to save the City of New York and the Department harmless from any claim whatsoever which may result from such use.

(7) Any transfer of permits requires the approval of the athletic permit coordinator of the borough in which the sports facilities are located. Such transfer, if approved, must take place in the office of the athletic permit coordinator of the relevant borough with both transferor and transferee present. The permit is not otherwise transferable.

(8) The permit is revocable at any time at the discretion of the Commissioner, or his or her representative. The reasons for revocation include, but are not limited to:
(i) providing incorrect information on an application form,
(ii) failure to adhere to the rules of the Department or the conditions of the permit, and
(iii) the use of a permit issued to a youth organization by adults. If a reserved session is cancelled by the Department for administrative reasons, the session may be rescheduled where feasible. The permittee has the right to appeal the revocation of a permit to the Chairperson of the Department's Ballfield Task Force within 10 days immediately following the mailing of notice of revocation by the Department. Such appeal must be in writing. The decision of the Chairperson of the Ballfield Task Force shall be final.

(9) The maximum number of reserved sessions that any adult single permit-holder or league may control is limited to sixteen sessions per week, per park. The maximum length of any permit is six months. Exceptions may be made by the Commissioner or his or her representative. Youth leagues shall not be subject to the 16 session per week, per park limit.

(10) The Department may review the practices of all leagues and tournaments to determine whether the permittee should receive the requested number of reserved sessions. If the Department determines that sports facility space is in high demand and that the permittee does not reasonably need all of the session time requested, the Department may approve the permit in part, granting to the permittee some fraction of the field or court time applied for.

(11) The Department may inspect the site to determine if the permittee is utilizing all of the reserved time requested. In the event that the Department determines that the permittee is not using all of the time requested, the Department may reduce the number of permitted sessions.

(12) Due to space limitations, the Department will not allow the reservation of sports facility space for practice sessions.

2-13 Football, Lacrosse, Rugby, Ultimate Frisbee and Soccer
(a) Permit Applications

(1) Anyone who wishes to reserve a field under the jurisdiction or management of the Department for the sports of football, lacrosse, rugby, ultimate frisbee, and soccer must obtain a written permit from the Department. If an individual is applying for a permit on behalf of a group or athletic league, he or she must so designate on the permit. Only one individual may apply for a permit per athletic league.

(2) The completed application must be received by the Department no later than March 1 of each year for spring and summer reservations, and no later than July 1 for fall reservations. Later applications will be filled on a space available basis.

(3) The completed application must include a list of all fields requested.

(4) The Department reserves the right to require a clean up bond and/or personal liability insurance for the event/game, naming the City of New York as co-insured. The factors to be considered in requiring a bond and/or insurance are:
(i) estimated number of spectators to attend sessions,
(ii) involvement of vendors (where permitted by the Department),
(iii) past history of league/event.

(5) Admission tickets, refreshments or any other articles may not be sold or offered for sale within or adjacent to any park area without the prior written authorization of the Department.

(b) Permits

(1) The permittee must confine sports activities to the locations and times specified on the permit.

(2) The permittee shall remain subject to the Rules of the Department, the specific terms of the permit, and to all rules, regulations and laws of all City, State and Federal departments insofar as applicable.

(3) The permittee must clean and restore the premises after each session.

(4) Pamphlets, handbills, or advertising material of any kind may not be posted, placed or distributed at the fields, unless written permission is granted by the Department.

(5) The permittee must have in his/her possession at the time and site of the reserved session the permit for the use of the field and any other permits or documents required by the Department or any other City agency for proposed activities at the session.

(6) The permittee is liable for all damage or injury to property or persons that may occur or be caused by the use of the permit, and by accepting the permit the permittee agrees to save the City of New York and the Department harmless from any claim whatsoever which may result from such use.

(7) Any transfer of permits requires the approval of the athletic permit coordinator of the borough in which the fields are located. Such transfer, if approved, must take place in the office of the athletic permit coordinator of the relevant borough with both transferor and transferee present. With this exception, the permit is not transferable.

(8) The permit is revocable at any time at the discretion of the Commissioner, or his or her representative. The reasons for revocation include, but are not limited to:
(i) providing incorrect information on an application form,
(ii) failure to adhere to the rules of the Department or the conditions of the permit, and
(iii) the use of a permit issued to a youth organization by adults. If a reserved session is cancelled by the Department, the session may be rescheduled where feasible. The permittee has the right to appeal the revocation of a permit to the Chairperson of the Department's Ballfield Task Force within 10 days immediately following the mailing of notice of revocation by the Department. Such appeal must be in writing. The decision of the Chairperson of the Ballfield Task Force shall be final.

(9) The maximum number of reserved sessions that any adult single permit-holder or league may control is limited to sixteen sessions per week, per park. The maximum length of any permit is six months. Exceptions may be made by the Commissioner or his or her representative. Youth leagues shall not be subject to the 16 session per week per park limit.

(10) The Department may review the practices of all leagues and tournaments to determine whether the permittee should receive the requested number of reserved sessions. If the Department determines that field space is in high demand and that the permittee does not reasonably need all of the session time requested, the Department may approve the permit in part, granting to the permittee some fraction of the field time applied for.

(11) The Department may inspect the site to determine if the permittee is utilizing all of the reserved time requested. In the event that the Department determines that the permittee is not using all of the time requested, the Department may reduce the number of permitted sessions.

(12) Due to space limitations, the Department will not allow the reservation of field space for practice sessions.

[Lock it Up Mikey]

Can we get the Cliff Notes?

[flip c*up yours]

The way I read it is that no permit is required for kickball.

Its not one of the sports listed.

[Daiquiri Dematas]

Can we get the Cliff Notes?

Yeah, we need to figure out what dates and fields we want in the Spring and submit an application ASAP.

[AmericanMike]

There is a section on the application that suggests "Other"
And you have to explain how many people will participate and how the sport is played.

And yes, I didn't want to read it either. But i figured someone may want to. I just provided the source.

[Karl]

i've seen how much the heckscher permits cost. let's just say that i've spent that much at a bar before. on myself.

[Lost_Sage]

That reading of the permit is not a very good one to stand on, because it gets kickball placed at the very, very bottom of the priority list (essentially the individual group line, behind little league and organized traditional sports leagues). Also, Parks and Rec in practice treats us in practice as if the organized sports provisions apply to us (if they didn't, we would get zero permits). Not to mention the "other" section Monkey brings up.

This is not the toughest city in the country in which to get permits for nothing.

Even assuming we are not under the purview of traditional sports, we are still governed the default requirement of a permit:

1. Each group of players using a field or court must purchase and possess a permit. Parks and Recreation reserves the right to request that the players provide proof of approved ballfield or court use.

Also, the permit itself doesn't "cost" very much. The non-mandatory but suggested donation to parks and rec is what gets you a prime field. Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

The way I read it is that no permit is required for kickball.

Its not one of the sports listed.

[flip c*up yours]

I hear ya Shane. I was kinda just joking about us not needing one...

[Daiquiri Dematas]

Like I said, you give me $12,000 and I'm sure it can happen, easily.

[AmericanMike]

In Dematas We Trust!!!
That will be on the back of the shirts.
With his face and a kickball looking like a dollar bill on the chest of the shirt.

[JOB]

I hear ya Shane. I was kinda just joking about us not needing one...

Maggie, I think you just got "Lawyered".....albeit good naturedly!

[*Angel*]

Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

Insurance for something like this has always been my biggest cost-concern when attempting to start up new social sports leagues.

[AmericanMike]

Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

Insurance for something like this has always been my biggest cost-concern when attempting to start up new social sports leagues.

Should I talk to my insurance agents?

[Kickbot]

Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

Insurance for something like this has always been my biggest cost-concern when attempting to start up new social sports leagues.

Can't we just sign a waiver?

[Daiquiri Dematas]

You get liability insurance and waivers, it's not terribly expensive and difficult.

[*Angel*]

Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

Insurance for something like this has always been my biggest cost-concern when attempting to start up new social sports leagues.

Can't we just sign a waiver?

My impression, when I was looking into starting a dodgeball league a few years ago, is that the waiver is not a safety net and not necessarily binding in court depending on the injury. It might discourage MOst injured players from pressing charges but if someone wanted to they would still have some level of a valid case.

This was what a lawyer friend told me at the time. I am not an expert on the subject, myself, so I could very well be wrong in my interpretation.

[AmericanMike]

Isn't this why we have people that are lawyers?

[Daiquiri Dematas]

I'm sure Shane is working right now, don't get him so excited.

[AmericanMike]

I'm sure Shane is working right now, don't get him so excited.

Remember when we all almost decided to by that bar on the UWS. the one that sponsored NY Freedom in 07.
Time Out.

[Daiquiri Dematas]

Yeah.

[Lost_Sage]

I cannot advise on matters of New York state law (missing a personal reference affidavit and a law school externship affidavit, then I can file the moral character application, then maybe they'll approve it in 8 months), so nothing from me but general guidance ...

Time Out's space is still vacant ...

[Daiquiri Dematas]

I cannot advise on matters of New York state law (missing a personal reference affidavit and a law school externship affidavit, then I can file the moral character application, then maybe they'll approve it in 8 months), so nothing from me but general guidance ...

Time Out's space is still vacant ...

I knew you were rock hard.

[*Angel*]

Remember when we all almost decided to by that bar on the UWS. the one that sponsored NY Freedom in 07.
Time Out.

That was cute of us.

[AmericanMike]

Remember when we all almost decided to by that bar on the UWS. the one that sponsored NY Freedom in 07.
Time Out.

That was cute of us.

We had a role for everyone including former MB posters like...

[Daiquiri Dematas]

That reading of the permit is not a very good one to stand on, because it gets kickball placed at the very, very bottom of the priority list (essentially the individual group line, behind little league and organized traditional sports leagues). Also, Parks and Rec in practice treats us in practice as if the organized sports provisions apply to us (if they didn't, we would get zero permits). Not to mention the "other" section Monkey brings up.

This is not the toughest city in the country in which to get permits for nothing.

Even assuming we are not under the purview of traditional sports, we are still governed the default requirement of a permit:

1. Each group of players using a field or court must purchase and possess a permit. Parks and Recreation reserves the right to request that the players provide proof of approved ballfield or court use.

Also, the permit itself doesn't "cost" very much. The non-mandatory but suggested donation to parks and rec is what gets you a prime field. Liability insurance isn't cheap either, and you will want absolutely want it if someone is injured under the watch of your sports league (the city is not liable).

The way I read it is that no permit is required for kickball.

Its not one of the sports listed.

Shane, how much do you think we are talking about here? $500, $1,000, $2,000, $5,000 ?

[JOB]

Remember when we all almost decided to by that bar on the UWS. the one that sponsored NY Freedom in 07.
Time Out.

That was cute of us.

We had a role for everyone including former MB posters like...

Yeah, I think we all had to figure that wasn't going to go anywhere but it was nice to dream....

[The Ro]

That was cute of us.

it's still entirely plausible.
i'd like to head up promotions and general management. i think money for start-up was the main issue.

[JOB]

That was cute of us.

it's still entirely plausible.
i'd like to head up promotions and general management. i think money for start-up was the main issue.

Anyone figure out exactly how much we'd need? A bar with like 20 owners might also be an issue to get things done...

[The Ro]

That was cute of us.

it's still entirely plausible.
i'd like to head up promotions and general management. i think money for start-up was the main issue.

Anyone figure out exactly how much we'd need? A bar with like 20 owners might also be an issue to get things done...

I'd be fine with maybe 3 people tops as co-owners.