VA Southside Fall 2010 Tournament

[crAsh]

Not being a part of the 2010 Winter Recess team that won FC may not entitle me to much of an opinion on this matter--but I'm sad that the team went out there to play to win $10k in prizes--which we all laughed and joked would be WAKA sweatshirts, WAKA totebags, and WAKA beads--and walked away with $9,250 and a team dispute. At the end of the day everyone paid money to go to Vegas with the anticipation of getting not much more than a sip of champagne from a trophy....and that was only if all of the games were executed well enough to win. Unfortunately, the money being argued is no more than $60 per person and as little as $16 per person...(Seeing as $500 went to Doris already and $115 to the trophy)

For people who may not be aware, Doris is one of our sponsors. She consistently meets us at tournaments with coolers filled with drinks and snacks and is always the first person to provide whatever it is we may need throughout the day, even if it is just someone to maintain the book.

Please do not think I'm trying to cause problems--it's actually pretty uncomfortable to put my feelings about the issue out there, but I feel like I've seen this happen from a mostly-outside perspective. I love PA in its entirety, former seasons' players included. While I feel most people on this board are reasonable enough to look at what has been presented and form their own opinion, I'm disappointed that anyone would possibly look at this as something negative with McCoy. Knowing him, I assure you that he is the last person who would ever purposely offend someone or purposely screw anyone out of anything. He is one of the most empathetic people I've ever met.

Again, not trying to cause any issues, but knowing McCoy I also know he isn't going to keep coming back to defend himself further.

[G-Ray]

I don't know who is staying with PA, lil Wilson played at FC and as soon as she voiced her opinion to him she was personally insulted...then she quit.

I think the discussion went a little more like this, Terri:

Nikki to McCoy: "I'm an accountant, you're stealing money from the team."
McCoy to Nikki: "How dare you accuse me of stealing money, I can show you a spreadsheet detailing where every penny has gone."
Nikki to McCoy:"Well, you never asked me what I wanted to do with the remaining money. This is supposed to be a TEAM. The TEAM is supposed to make the decision."
McCoy to Nikki: "Your vote would not have cancelled out the 11 other players on the team that supported the decision. Besides, where were you this past season when the TEAM was playing on Thursdays?"

Im an accountant too and my question is, where are you two getting $850?

Lets do elementary math real quick.

$10000 by 14 players = $714.29. Oh but wait, we didn't get $10000. We got $9250. So lets try this again. $9250 by 14 players = $660.71.

So $660.71 less $500 at the field in vegas leaves 160.71 in question. Oh but its not a question. McCoy gave us $100 a couple weeks okay so lets try this once more.

$660.71 less $500 (given in Vegas as gift card) less $100 (given to us in cash by McCoy's five pretty fingers and deep pocket) = $60.71.

Everyone knew he was engraving our names. Did you assume he would pay for it himself? No, if you did, you're a dick. So that cost $115.

Back to the calculator since elementary school kids even know how to use those. 14 players splitting $115 expense for engraving their names on the trophy.

$115 by 14 players = $8.21

$60.71 less $8.21 = $52.50

So the amount that you claim that McCoy stole from you without permission is $52.50. That won't even take you and a date to a movie with popcorn and a drink.

[lilwilson3]

Wow really Trey? Let me load the f'n text messages from me n McCoy and well compare notes because I never accused McCoy of stealing from us or claimed to be an accoutntant because I'm not dumb asses. F this team because you lie and make shit up for your own benefit. Ill post the real convo once I get to a computer and well see how that matches up. But Trey stop kissing everyones ass. Now I see why people can't f'n stand you. Don't ever try to quote me again you f'n liar! This is why this team is bs! I'm out

[lilwilson3]

I never accused McCoy of stealing! I said including everyone in decisions and not leaving them to figure it out for themselves. To actually include everyone and to really want to hear what everyone has to say.

[JellyDogg]

Dang, I'm also an accountant... there are way too many of us in here.

[G-Ray]

Dang, I'm also an accountant... there are way too many of us in here.

can you at least do math though? I am a financial analyst for a bank. I don't practice accounting but i do have a calculator that works well. Plus im pretty good with basic math in my head.

[Trey it Up]

Nikki, no need for personal attacks. I heard that version of the conversation from two different sides. If you want to make this some personal vendetta, then that is your right. It will obviously make you look petty, but I seriously doubt anything you say or do could taint anyone's perception of McCoy or how he dealt with the money (with the backing of 11 out of 14 players). Your personal attacks against me are unwarranted, and again make you look very petty. Clearly my rendition of the conversation isn't word for word, but that is basically how most would agree the Cliff Note version would go.

[JellyDogg]

Dang, I'm also an accountant... there are way too many of us in here.

can you at least do math though? I am a financial analyst for a bank. I don't practice accounting but i do have a calculator that works well. Plus im pretty good with basic math in my head.

Yes. $52.50 x 14 = $735. Perhaps Terri did assume the captain was going to cover the engraving for the team, in which case the total did actually come to $850. So, I guess you are both right. Good accounting all around.

[CLUTCH Lady]

George, then you obviously haven't read the point I made at the beginning...or you wouldn't have wasted your time going through the figures. I am not doubting the figures...but the decision making process...hello!!

[G-Ray]

Dang, I'm also an accountant... there are way too many of us in here.

can you at least do math though? I am a financial analyst for a bank. I don't practice accounting but i do have a calculator that works well. Plus im pretty good with basic math in my head.

Yes. $52.50 x 14 = $735. Perhaps Terri did assume the captain was going to cover the engraving for the team, in which case the total did actually come to $850. So, I guess you are both right. Good accounting all around.

easy buddy. you need to carry your calculator a little further because 11 of us said it was okay to use that money for doris and the engraving. finish the equation and see what you get then.

[G-Ray]

George, then you obviously haven't read the point I made at the beginning...or you wouldn't have wasted your time going through the figures. I am not doubting the figures...but the decision making process...hello!!

I am reading this as you are wondering where your 52.50 went. You and nikki are claiming to have no idea on how mccoy felt it was right in his mind to use that money. As a team captain, (granted I am not going to get involved in the larry as co-captain argument) he represents the team and all for the team. If we didn't like the way he runs his team, then we are free to leave the team or elect a new captain.

[G-Ray]

The amount in argument out of this whole ordeal is 157.50. $52.50 for terri and $52.50 for nikki and $52.50 for Larry (although I don't hear him complaining about this).

[JellyDogg]

easy buddy. you need to carry your calculator a little further because 11 of us said it was okay to use that money for doris and the engraving. finish the equation and see what you get then.

I think Terri's point is that there was a pool of the team's money ($850) that was distributed without feedback from everyone being impacted by the decision. In that regard, she is correct. You would also be correct in stating that her share of that was really only $52.50 (household amount of $105 for Larry's share). Regardless, as Terri said her issue is not with the math/accounting, but with the decision-making process.

[G-Ray]

easy buddy. you need to carry your calculator a little further because 11 of us said it was okay to use that money for doris and the engraving. finish the equation and see what you get then.

I think Terri's point is that there was a pool of the team's money ($850) that was distributed without feedback from everyone being impacted by the decision. In that regard, she is correct. You would also be correct in stating that her share of that was really only $52.50 (household amount of $105 for Larry's share). Regardless, as Terri said her issue is not with the math/accounting, but with the decision-making process.

Even with the agreeance with Terri, the amount in question is still 157.50 because the other 11 are happy with the decision making process.

[JellyDogg]

Even with the agreeance with Terri, the amount in question is still 157.50 because the other 11 are happy with the decision making process.

Yes, people that make the decisions are often happy with the decision-making process. As we see, though, those that have the decisions made for them are not quite so happy.

[CLUTCH Lady]

easy buddy. you need to carry your calculator a little further because 11 of us said it was okay to use that money for doris and the engraving. finish the equation and see what you get then.

I think Terri's point is that there was a pool of the team's money ($850) that was distributed without feedback from everyone being impacted by the decision. In that regard, she is correct. You would also be correct in stating that her share of that was really only $52.50 (household amount of $105 for Larry's share). Regardless, as Terri said her issue is not with the math/accounting, but with the decision-making process.

Even with the agreeance with Terri, the amount in question is still 157.50 because the other 11 are happy with the decision making process.

I have heard anywhere from 8-11 people were involved...and I sure they are happy...they were involved...those of us that weren't, don't feel that way...

[Trey it Up]

I'm not happy that Obama is my President, but I respect the rights of the other citizens of the country to choose our leader. JD, I don't hear you arguing that I should get to choose who personally leads my little portion of the country.

[CLUTCH Lady]

I'm not happy that Obama is my President, but I respect the rights of the other citizens of the country to choose our leader. JD, I don't hear you arguing that I should get to choose who personally leads my little portion of the country.

You missed your calling...you should have gone into politics...

[Trey it Up]

I have heard anywhere from 8-11 people were involved...and I sure they are happy...they were involved...those of us that weren't, don't feel that way...

The 11 people that voted for the final decision are baffled that anyone would choose not to repay our sponsors in any way, shape, or form--especially a sponsor like Doris who was so much more than just a check-writer for Panik.

[JellyDogg]

I'm not happy that Obama is my President, but I respect the rights of the other citizens of the country to choose our leader. JD, I don't hear you arguing that I should get to choose who personally leads my little portion of the country.

1) It's not a "little portion" of the country, and we all know it.
2) I also don't hear you saying we should just not tell everyone when election day is, since the polls already show Candidate X is leading.

[Trey it Up]

Why is it that when you are in the minority you expect that your voice should carry more weight than the majority?

[Trey it Up]

2) I also don't hear you saying we should just not tell everyone when election day is, since the polls already show Candidate X is leading.

It's more like at 5pm on Election Day 79% of the country has voted for Candidate X and the remaining 21% of the country wants us to hold out on calling the election against Candidate Y until they've had a chance to vote for Candidate Y.

[CLUTCH Lady]

It is all about respecting the opinion of ALL the members of the team not just a select few...voting on a bus is ridiculous anyway, why the hurry? Why not wait until we can all sit down together as a team and make a proper decision? Quite possibly because the people that were there were all "yes" people?

[G-Ray]

It is all about respecting the opinion of ALL the members of the team not just a select few...voting on a bus is ridiculous anyway, why the hurry? Why not wait until we can all sit down together as a team and make a proper decision? Quite possibly because the people that were there were all "yes" people?

Hmm weren't we all on the same bus?

[Trey it Up]

McCoy actually sent out an email to the whole team a week later--after you and Nikki made a stink over having to pay your fair share to engrave the trophy. He stated that he was tired of people complaining about $25 and he said that he would be distributing all of the remaining money at the next game. Eleven out of the fourteen people that went to Vegas were appalled that anyone would complain about repaying Doris for her generosity this year, or paying $8 per person to engrave the trophy with their name, or keeping some extra money in Panik's account to use on balls and other expenses.

Like I said before, no INDIVIDUAL won any money in SFKO, NYC, or Vegas--the TEAM won money. As such, the TEAM should make the decision as to how that money is spent--not INDIVIDUALS. If you don't want to be part of a TEAM that makes decisions as a TEAM and you prefer to be a collection of INDIVIDUALS then you should join a different "team" where individuals are more important than the "team."

[CLUTCH Lady]

It is all about respecting the opinion of ALL the members of the team not just a select few...voting on a bus is ridiculous anyway, why the hurry? Why not wait until we can all sit down together as a team and make a proper decision? Quite possibly because the people that were there were all "yes" people?

Hmm weren't we all on the same bus?

No...several of us had other means of transportation..and as Nikki said..she was on the same bus as you but he did not involve her in the discussion...

[JellyDogg]

I think giving the sponsor share was a nice gesture, as well as the plaques. I don't think McCoy made this decision in bad faith or anything like that. However, he was careless not to include everyone, which was disrespectful to those not included. Maybe since you were one of the ones asked for your input you don't get how demeaning it is to be left out. As if your opinion/thoughts don't matter to the team. You might as well say "It's ok, see, we asked all the important people on the team what they thought, and they all agreed. We didn't have time for your input." You also don't get that it's even MORE demeaning that 11 out of 14 people were asked, and you weren't one of them.

And, no, it's not as if the votes were already in. Everyone still had a chance to change their vote if persuaded by a contrary argument. Even if everyone else still voted the sponsor a share, they could have changed their vote to not having the share be paid out from the total pot, but only for those that agreed. Or perhaps it wouldn't have changed anything, but intentional or not it displays a total lack of respect to not ask certain players, and much worse than that to not even inform said players of a decision that affects them.

[Trey it Up]

Nikki was given an opportunity to voice her opinion--just like everyone else. She's still voicing her opinion. Unfortunately for the minority, the vote to do the right thing instead of the selfish thing was so overwhelming that her opinion had absolutely no effect on the final decision. Amazingly, McCoy ALMOST bent to the will of the overwhelming minority because they were far more vocal and nasty than the overwhelming majority. Thank goodness he didn't.

[JellyDogg]

Like I said before, no INDIVIDUAL won any money in SFKO, NYC, or Vegas--the TEAM won money. As such, the TEAM should make the decision as to how that money is spent--not INDIVIDUALS. If you don't want to be part of a TEAM that makes decisions as a TEAM and you prefer to be a collection of INDIVIDUALS then you should join a different "team" where individuals are more important than the "team."

Wow, you're such a collectivist.

[CLUTCH Lady]

McCoy actually sent out an email to the whole team a week later--after you and Nikki made a stink over having to pay your fair share to engrave the trophy. He stated that he was tired of people complaining about $25 and he said that he would be distributing all of the remaining money at the next game. Eleven out of the fourteen people that went to Vegas were appalled that anyone would complain about repaying Doris for her generosity this year, or paying $8 per person to engrave the trophy with their name, or keeping some extra money in Panik's account to use on balls and other expenses.

Like I said before, no INDIVIDUAL won any money in SFKO, NYC, or Vegas--the TEAM won money. As such, the TEAM should make the decision as to how that money is spent--not INDIVIDUALS. If you don't want to be part of a TEAM that makes decisions as a TEAM and you prefer to be a collection of INDIVIDUALS then you should join a different "team" where individuals are more important than the "team."

You are not a team...there is no I in team...that means everyone...you acted as individuals not a team in making that decision..don't turn it around, Trey, and I will say this again...Larry the CO-CAPTAIN of the "team" was not even told this happened until a week later. TEAM? What a joke!!

[Trey it Up]

JD, I agree that everyone should have been asked. McCoy made a hasty decision when doling out money to Doris. I believe he thought that nobody in their right mind would object to repaying Doris for everything she's done for us. I'm shocked that ANYBODY would object. He wanted to give Doris a little "Thank you" right away.

[Trey it Up]

Terri, we've all heard that you don't think that Panik should have given Doris anything for all of her support. We've also heard that you don't think that Doris nor Chilled Ponds should have received a plaque for their sponsorship. We've also heard that you don't think that you should have to pay $8 to have the trophy engraved with your name. What we haven't heard is why?

[machinegunkelly]

Why is this being discussed on the mb? This is a internal team issue that should be kept private

[Trey it Up]

Why is this being discussed on the mb? This is a internal team issue that should be kept private

I couldn't agree more.

[Trey it Up]

You are not a team...there is no I in team...that means everyone...you acted as individuals not a team in making that decision..don't turn it around, Trey, and I will say this again...Larry the CO-CAPTAIN of the "team" was not even told this happened until a week later. TEAM? What a joke!!

Eleven out of fourteen people disagree. Larry knew about it. I talked to him about it in Vegas.

[Zak]

It is all about respecting the opinion of ALL the members of the team not just a select few...voting on a bus is ridiculous anyway, why the hurry? Why not wait until we can all sit down together as a team and make a proper decision? Quite possibly because the people that were there were all "yes" people?

Hmm weren't we all on the same bus?

this sounds like a much more interesting bus ride than the one i took back from the fields, maybe I should have gotten on the PA bus

[eric1973]

I have known McCoy for over 25 years. He is a stand up guy. He would only do what he thought was best . He looks out for other people before himself. Maybe members of his teams from the past will step up and say how much McCoy has put in of his own money so that his team could have nice things. McCoy would always be willing to listen to anything. He doesnt deserve this.

[Howitzer]

ENOUGH OF THIS DRAMA SH*T!!! Here's a thought!! Lets stop talking about it!!! Well, how is everyone doing today, lets talk about Winter season, is everyone signing up!!!

[Trey it Up]

ENOUGH OF THIS DRAMA SH*T!!! Here's a thought!! Lets stop talking about it!!! Well, how is everyone doing today, lets talk about Winter season, is everyone signing up!!!

Larry.

[dregs]

Oh Hi Larry!