New Format For Elimination Rounds?

[Karl]

I had an idea the other day and thought I would put it out to MB for discussion. It had to do with a modification to the elimination round in tournaments. Essentially it's a modified double elimination format. Here's the idea:

Each tournament conducts pool play as usual. Following pool play, all teams advance to the elimination round. However, the elimination round consists of an A and a B bracket. For instance, if the tournament were 32 teams, the A bracket would feature the top 16 teams and the B bracket would feature the bottom 16 teams, based on each team's pool play record. The A bracket then competes for the top prizes, while the B bracket competes for a single, lesser prize.

This format wouldn't necessarily affect the top teams, but might give the bottom tier teams added incentive to come back for future tournaments. Or it gives top tier teams who have an off morning the chance for redemption in the afternoon. Time permitting, the B bracket championship could be played in between the semis and finals of the A bracket, giving the bracket finals teams a brief rest that might help their level of play in the finals and also give more people a reason to stick around and watch another Meatballs vs. Panik championship.

Thoughts?

[JellyDogg]

I like it. I think people get too caught up in making sure the top teams get a good payout that they forget it's the mid-tier and lower-tier teams' registration fees that largely fund those payouts. We want (need) those teams coming back, too.

[Trey it Up]

I agree. I think it's a great idea. I wonder if any gamesmanship would go on if the 2nd tier tournament offered an enticing prize. Would you see teams sandbagging pool play games so they could have a better shot at winning money?

[kim dude]

I agree. I think it's a great idea. I wonder if any gamesmanship would go on if the 2nd tier tournament offered an enticing prize. Would you see teams sandbagging pool play games so they could have a better shot at winning money?

I guess it depends on the ratio of the 2nd tier payout to the 1st tier. As someone who goes to tournaments to just play as many games as possible and have a good time. I like it. It gives you the chance to have your games continue to mean something.

[j22201]

Maybe Give the winner of 2nd tier free registration at the next tourney....

[Karl]

you might get some sandbagging, but i doubt a championship would sure thing for teams who did that. at SFKO for instance you might have had the situation having to go up against a team like bangers and dash (or whatever they were called) for the pool B championship.

i'd be interested to see what a hypothetical SFKO '11 B bracket would have looked like.

[Karl]

Maybe Give the winner of 2nd tier free registration at the next tourney....

i like that. definitely a motivating prize and doesn't detract from the larger pot.

[Jared It Up!]

since when does 17th place win something?

This is fine if the consolation winner gets nothing, but why would a 16th best team want to play in the main draw and have no shot at winning, while the 17th team has a shot at a free entry the following year?

[JellyDogg]

I don't think you'd have any sandbagging. Teams that fancy themselves "elite" aren't going to prove that in the B bracket. I also don't think a prize for the lower bracket would be worth sandbagging for (maybe your registration back? Maybe a limited bar tab? Maybe a featured interview on First to Third?)

[Karl]

featured interview = hott

[YagerBombATL]

I don't think you'd have any sandbagging. Teams that fancy themselves "elite" aren't going to prove that in the B bracket. I also don't think a prize for the lower bracket would be worth sandbagging for (maybe your registration back? Maybe a limited bar tab? Maybe a featured interview on First to Third?)

Bar tab may be a better way to go. Keeps the elite teams looking to keep their elite status while rewarding those lower tier teams that most likely are there to drink anyway. Allows them to have an even better time after a tournament that they would have otherwise walked away from possibly disappointed and discouraged.

Beer and liquor solve everything.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

I had an idea the other day and thought I would put it out to MB for discussion. It had to do with a modification to the elimination round in tournaments. Essentially it's a modified double elimination format. Here's the idea:

Each tournament conducts pool play as usual. Following pool play, all teams advance to the elimination round. However, the elimination round consists of an A and a B bracket. For instance, if the tournament were 32 teams, the A bracket would feature the top 16 teams and the B bracket would feature the bottom 16 teams, based on each team's pool play record. The A bracket then competes for the top prizes, while the B bracket competes for a single, lesser prize.

This format wouldn't necessarily affect the top teams, but might give the bottom tier teams added incentive to come back for future tournaments. Or it gives top tier teams who have an off morning the chance for redemption in the afternoon. Time permitting, the B bracket championship could be played in between the semis and finals of the A bracket, giving the bracket finals teams a brief rest that might help their level of play in the finals and also give more people a reason to stick around and watch another Meatballs vs. Panik championship.

Thoughts?

field space for 16 games.
and
at least 32 umpires

That may be an issue. Along with sand bagging by teams on the fence of top and bottom tier

[machinegunkelly]

how is this diffrent from the FC and Kickball games?

[Karl]

how is this diffrent from the FC and Kickball games?

everyone is in the same tournament to begin with. also no prizes for best costumes.

[Karl]

I had an idea the other day and thought I would put it out to MB for discussion. It had to do with a modification to the elimination round in tournaments. Essentially it's a modified double elimination format. Here's the idea:

Each tournament conducts pool play as usual. Following pool play, all teams advance to the elimination round. However, the elimination round consists of an A and a B bracket. For instance, if the tournament were 32 teams, the A bracket would feature the top 16 teams and the B bracket would feature the bottom 16 teams, based on each team's pool play record. The A bracket then competes for the top prizes, while the B bracket competes for a single, lesser prize.

This format wouldn't necessarily affect the top teams, but might give the bottom tier teams added incentive to come back for future tournaments. Or it gives top tier teams who have an off morning the chance for redemption in the afternoon. Time permitting, the B bracket championship could be played in between the semis and finals of the A bracket, giving the bracket finals teams a brief rest that might help their level of play in the finals and also give more people a reason to stick around and watch another Meatballs vs. Panik championship.

Thoughts?

field space for 16 games.
and
at least 32 umpires

That may be an issue. Along with sand bagging by teams on the fence of top and bottom tier

I agree that some teams might sandbag in the morning, but if the prize isn't of GREAT significance to a competitive team, then I really don't think it would happen. in VBKO you might have had ViDF vs. IB for that elim round pool B prize.

[machinegunkelly]

how is this diffrent from the FC and Kickball games?

everyone is in the same tournament to begin with. also no prizes for best costumes.

i dont like it then

[Kickbot]

I'd really be surprised if any team lost on purpose. I don't think most teams come out an bleed all over the field for prizes.

[Edge]

since when does 17th place win something?

This is fine if the consolation winner gets nothing, but why would a 16th best team want to play in the main draw and have no shot at winning, while the 17th team has a shot at a free entry the following year?

Agreed. I like the concept, but don't have a prize for winning the Pool B Championship. It's not fair for the teams that advance to the Pool A single elims but don't place to come away with nothing, when the 17th place teams wins a cas prize/entry to next tournament/etc. Most teams would enjoy just being able to play more than 3-4 games and I think that would be good enough. It would be no pressure and the the Pool B tournament essentially just becomes a fun tournament.

[-APBT-]

This is similar to the format that was used in Annapolis for a tourney, way back when. The teams that won their pools went in to one bracket and the teams that won all of their games but lost one went in to another. Winners went to lunch, losers kept playing each other. They played these games during lunch and then the winner of that was able to step in and play the highest seeded team. This gave them a shot to win it, granted it's a hard path to get there but still another shot. Once the winners bracket started playing, it went back to single elimination. OIP did it in that tournament and actually ended up winning it which was quite impressive on one hand and sucked in on the other because they actually beat my team in the finals.

[dp3]

Please don't ever have a prize for winning the "lower half." I don't want a blue ribbon for participation....ever.

If the tournament has 8 teams, I'd rather place 4th and get blown out in every game against the top 3 than 5th, mercy ruling teams 6-8.

If I wanted a pity prize, I'd sign up for the Kickball Games. Competitive spirit and pride would never allow me to accept such an insult.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

I'd really be surprised if any team lost on purpose. I don't think most teams come out an bleed all over the field for prizes.

Have you read any of that other thread talking about seedings? After reading that I would NOT be suprised if teams lost to go in to the lower tier. There are a lot of waka minded people floating around in the circuit.