[Rules] Change Log to Rule Book v.2012

[Catch-22]

No need to induce encroachment anymore. Encroaching Catchers have been neutralized by the rules now.

[Trey it Up]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

[FlyingV]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

Do catchers even make 3-4 plays per game anymore?

[Trey it Up]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

Do catchers even make 3-4 plays per game anymore?

I'd say they do--especially on grass fields. On turf fields Catchers only make 1-3 plays.

[kim dude]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

Please note that encroachment results in a Ball in the Circuit., not a base. Overall, I don't see it being called a whole lot more than before, but now that it is VERY clear what defines encroaching the catcher's will be more careful about it.

[The Slam]

What I think being overlooked is that sometimes when a pitch is clearly a ball the kicker steps back and the catcher will sometimes come in front of the kicker and pick up the ball and throw it back. Whats the call on that? There's clearly no intent to kick and the kicker isnt trying to induce encroachment but the catcher is technically in front of the kicker.

[Trey it Up]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

Please note that encroachment results in a Ball in the Circuit., not a base. Overall, I don't see it being called a whole lot more than before, but now that it is VERY clear what defines encroaching the catcher's will be more careful about it.

I agree. It won't be called that much more, but mostly because it will be self-policed.

[Trey it Up]

What I think being overlooked is that sometimes when a pitch is clearly a ball the kicker steps back and the catcher will sometimes come in front of the kicker and pick up the ball and throw it back. Whats the call on that? There's clearly no intent to kick and the kicker isnt trying to induce encroachment but the catcher is technically in front of the kicker.

The ball has to be kicked for encroachment to occur.

[kim dude]

What I think being overlooked is that sometimes when a pitch is clearly a ball the kicker steps back and the catcher will sometimes come in front of the kicker and pick up the ball and throw it back. Whats the call on that? There's clearly no intent to kick and the kicker isnt trying to induce encroachment but the catcher is technically in front of the kicker.

not encroachment. it's usually pretty clear when someone is trying to induce it because there is an actual approach to kick

[Justin]

Honestly, I really think this rule will change the order of the top teams as much or more than any rule since going from 1-bounce to 2-bounce. You'll see a lot of teams who really counted on their encroaching catchers making 3-4 plays a game by encroaching give up significantly more base runners due to proper enforcement of the rules.

Please note that encroachment results in a Ball in the Circuit., not a base. Overall, I don't see it being called a whole lot more than before, but now that it is VERY clear what defines encroaching the catcher's will be more careful about it.

I think this comes down to risk vs. reward. In pool play when refs are less likely to call it due to bad positioning and the speed of the game itself; the Trey labeled "Pseudo-elite" catcher will continue to play exactly the way they have before because the reward greatly outweighs the risk. Until they consistently start getting it called on them nothing will change until there is a ref in perfect position to monitor this without having to worry about balls, strikes, foul balls, and every f-up the field refs make as well.

[Trey it Up]

True, however, slapping the ball off the kicker's foot will no longer be a viable play.

[AD-ROCK]

What I think being overlooked is that sometimes when a pitch is clearly a ball the kicker steps back and the catcher will sometimes come in front of the kicker and pick up the ball and throw it back. Whats the call on that? There's clearly no intent to kick and the kicker isnt trying to induce encroachment but the catcher is technically in front of the kicker.

The ball has to be kicked for encroachment to occur.

Is that really the case? I've seen several awkward situations where a team is trying to walk a kicker and the kicker whiffs on purpose to get the intentional strike out warranting the intentional walk impossible. In retaliation catchers started running in front of the kicker when the pitch was thrown to get the encroachment call. The kickers than countered by running in front of the plate almost halfway to the mound to get the call in their favor. If Trey is correct than the catcher encroachment call in this case is void.

It's plays like these when I analyze what the hell I'm doing playing adult kickball.

[-BK-]

It's not hard to call this rule during game play. I think it's pretty obvious the difference between a bunt that is popped up that the catcher catches and a bunt in which a catcher reaches out to slap the ball down in front. Realistically you don't need the ref on third base... take that ref and put them on the side to call encroachment on the catcher. If there's a play at third that needs to be called, then either the home plate ref or the "catcher encroachment ref" can run 20-30 ft down and make the call.

[Trey it Up]

What I think being overlooked is that sometimes when a pitch is clearly a ball the kicker steps back and the catcher will sometimes come in front of the kicker and pick up the ball and throw it back. Whats the call on that? There's clearly no intent to kick and the kicker isnt trying to induce encroachment but the catcher is technically in front of the kicker.

The ball has to be kicked for encroachment to occur.

Is that really the case? I've seen several awkward situations where a team is trying to walk a kicker and the kicker whiffs on purpose to get the intentional strike out warranting the intentional walk impossible. In retaliation catchers started running in front of the kicker when the pitch was thrown to get the encroachment call. The kickers than countered by running in front of the plate almost halfway to the mound to get the call in their favor. If Trey is correct than the catcher encroachment call in this case is void.

It's plays like these when I analyze what the hell I'm doing playing adult kickball.

It's encroachment if the Catcher touches the ball before the kicker has an opportunity to kick, as well.

[AD-ROCK]

It's not hard to call this rule during game play. I think it's pretty obvious the difference between a bunt that is popped up that the catcher catches and a bunt in which a catcher reaches out to slap the ball down in front. Realistically you don't need the ref on third base... take that ref and put them on the side to call encroachment on the catcher. If there's a play at third that needs to be called, then either the home plate ref or the "catcher encroachment ref" can run 20-30 ft down and make the call.

This is a great point, a 3rd base ref doesn't need to be standing near 3rd till after a ball has been kicked or there is an immediate threat for a play (i.e. person on 2nd or 3rd). This may be an idea to have that ref standing as an encroachment watcher, he would also have a better look at foot plant location. He would have plenty of time to light jog to the 3rd base area after the ball has been put in play.

[kim dude]

It's not hard to call this rule during game play. I think it's pretty obvious the difference between a bunt that is popped up that the catcher catches and a bunt in which a catcher reaches out to slap the ball down in front. Realistically you don't need the ref on third base... take that ref and put them on the side to call encroachment on the catcher. If there's a play at third that needs to be called, then either the home plate ref or the "catcher encroachment ref" can run 20-30 ft down and make the call.

This is a great point, a 3rd base ref doesn't need to be standing near 3rd till after a ball has been kicked or there is an immediate threat for a play (i.e. person on 2nd or 3rd). This may be an idea to have that ref standing as an encroachment watcher, he would also have a better look at foot plant location. He would have plenty of time to light jog to the 3rd base area after the ball has been put in play.

not entirely true. when I ref home i give my base refs assignments whether there is a play at their base or not. my 3rd base ref has infield encroachment and my 1st base ref has double kicks (not always obvious to the ref at home)

[Eliminator]

It's not hard to call this rule during game play. I think it's pretty obvious the difference between a bunt that is popped up that the catcher catches and a bunt in which a catcher reaches out to slap the ball down in front. Realistically you don't need the ref on third base... take that ref and put them on the side to call encroachment on the catcher. If there's a play at third that needs to be called, then either the home plate ref or the "catcher encroachment ref" can run 20-30 ft down and make the call.

This is a great point, a 3rd base ref doesn't need to be standing near 3rd till after a ball has been kicked or there is an immediate threat for a play (i.e. person on 2nd or 3rd). This may be an idea to have that ref standing as an encroachment watcher, he would also have a better look at foot plant location. He would have plenty of time to light jog to the 3rd base area after the ball has been put in play.

If we do this (which I'd be in favor of) we'd also need the 1B ref to call encroachment all the way across the 1st to 3rd line. Meaning if the 3rd base ref is now out of position its the 1B ref's job to call encroachment on a charger.

[Trey it Up]

I don't see any problem with a 1B ref looking for encroachment for P and Ch. The 1B ref shouldn't need to watch the kicker at all if the 3B ref is watching for C encroachment, double-kicks, kicker box infractions, etc.

[harleyotto]

it's not I like was getting drunk in Vegas when you were still in elementary school.