Clarification from Fully Loaded

[Edge]

This thread would be a lot better if everyone quit posting in it.

[Trey it Up]

Catch, you do realize that your team was seeded #6 out of only 14 teams, right? That means you were right in the middle. That means you earned the right to play middle of the pack teams (4-11) and no top (1-3) or bottom (12-14). Everyone in the middle was fair game. If the tournament was seeded 100% by seed with no geographic consideration, you still would have ended up with #2, #3, #7, #10, #11, and #14 on your side of the bracket. Your team couldn't beat #3 and #10 and there's no reason to believe that you were capable of beating #2. So what is your argument? That you should have gone 1-1-2 instead of 0-2-2? That's a champions mentality right there!

[Karl]

I just think that if there is a large enough tourney (14 teams was NOT large enough), the organizer should make sure the top seeds are not in the same pool

+1

[timberwolf]

Ok, see what you guys think about this...

The Circuit needs to maintain a National Ranking of all Registered Circuit teams. This official national ranking should NOT be based on accumulated Circuit points, which are awarded based mostly on circuit event attendance and placement/showing for a particular event, and which resets with each Circuit year. Rather, the ranking should be based on an overall Quality Win-Loss-Tie factor against other registered teams in the Circuit for games played at Circuit events. Games played outside of Circuit events would not count or otherwise affect a teams ranking should they play against other circuit teams in any non-Circuit event, such as non-Circuit league play, etc.

Come any Circuit tournament event time, for Pool Play, attending registered Circuit teams are placed into pools as follows:

The highest-ranked attending registered Circuit teams are seeded into the number of pools for that Circuit event. Once the first team in each pool has been placed, then the rest of the attending registered Circuit teams are placed serpentine-style order into the pools. Once all registered Circuit teams have been placed into pools, then we deal with teams that are not registered with the Circuit.

Teams that are not registered with the Circuit and/or teams that are brand new to the Circuit scene that are not yet ranked will be put into the un-ranked/unknown category and are arbitrarily/randomly distributed into the pools, since it would not be possible to properly rank them until they have completed at least 1 Circuit event.

Note that while it may be possible to rank non-Circuit teams that have completed a Circuit event previously (as there would now be reliable information that might help to do that evenly/fairly) however, those teams would not be inserted into the pools until after all registered Circuit teams have been placed into pools by their rank. This would be a perk of being a registered Circuit team and would therefore hopefully help encourage teams to register for the Circuit.

Because the Circuit is concerned with high-level of competition first and foremost, geographic region distribution will have to take a bow out. If it happens that 3 FL/NY/VB/etc teams all end up in the same pool, well so be it. It would suck, to be sure, but competition level first.

Once pool play is completed, teams should be re-seeded for Elimination rounds based on their performance that day at that event only. It would be based on W-L-T first. Tie-breakers should probably be head-to-head, RA, RD, RS.


Questions:

How often should the national ranking be reviewed? Annually, semi-annually or after each Circuit event??

How to place "availables"/"all-star" teams that attend Circuit events? Treat the same as an un-ranked/unknown team and randomly place into pool ??

What to do if a Circuit event has no registered Circuit teams attend? In that unlikely case, make it completely random draw for pool play??

Should the W-L-T factor to determine ranking use a weighted multiplication value for wins? So for example, a team that beats another team ranked 2 or more places above them gets a higher factor for their win than if they were to beat a team ranked lower than them?? Should their be group tiers for that determination - say 1-3, 4-6, 7-10, etc??

[Catch-22]

Catch, you do realize that your team was seeded #6 out of only 14 teams, right? That means you were right in the middle. That means you earned the right to play middle of the pack teams (4-11) and no top (1-3) or bottom (12-14). Everyone in the middle was fair game. If the tournament was seeded 100% by seed with no geographic consideration, you still would have ended up with #2, #3, #7, #10, #11, and #14 on your side of the bracket. Your team couldn't beat #3 and #10 and there's no reason to believe that you were capable of beating #2. So what is your argument? That you should have gone 1-1-2 instead of 0-2-2? That's a champions mentality right there!

This conversation has gone on long enough. The easier the pool play schedule is for a team, the better their chances are to win the tourney. We're all playing in these tourneys to win them. The same reason you want the #1 seed to get the cakewalk pool play like you've had at the last two tourneys is the same reason teams #3-whatever are trying to improve their draws. Don't get all high and mighty because #3-whatever want to improve their chances for success.

[kim dude]

That makes some sense.

[Trey it Up]

This conversation has gone on long enough. The easier the pool play schedule is for a team, the better their chances are to win the tourney. We're all playing in these tourneys to win them. The same reason you want the #1 seed to get the cakewalk pool play like you've had at the last two tourneys is the same reason teams #3-whatever are trying to improve their draws. Don't get all high and mighty because #3-whatever want to improve their chances for success.

I'm pretty sure that I've already laid out a pretty good blueprint for improving success, improving your draw, and improving your team. None of it has to do with socialist seeding. Those that EARN better seeds DESERVE better seeds. The fact that you think everyone deserves a trophy and an equally easy road to the finals is disgusting to me. Your thought process is everything that is wrong with our country.

You should probably quit competitive sports. You don't get what they're about.

[2_easy]

This conversation has gone on long enough. The easier the pool play schedule is for a team, the better their chances are to win the tourney. We're all playing in these tourneys to win them. The same reason you want the #1 seed to get the cakewalk pool play like you've had at the last two tourneys is the same reason teams #3-whatever are trying to improve their draws. Don't get all high and mighty because #3-whatever want to improve their chances for success.

I'm pretty sure that I've already laid out a pretty good blueprint for improving success, improving your draw, and improving your team. None of it has to do with socialist seeding. Those that EARN better seeds DESERVE better seeds. The fact that you think everyone deserves a trophy and an equally easy road to the finals is disgusting to me. Your thought process is everything that is wrong with our country.

You should probably quit competitive sports. You don't get what they're about.

We are insulted. Competitive sports is about Best Parties. Best Games. Best Friends! DUH!

[Hollywood B]

The Circuit needs to maintain a National Ranking of all Registered Circuit teams. This official national ranking should NOT be based on accumulated Circuit points, which are awarded based mostly on circuit event attendance and placement/showing for a particular event, and which resets with each Circuit year. Rather, the ranking should be based on an overall Quality Win-Loss-Tie factor against other registered teams in the Circuit for games played at Circuit events. Games played outside of Circuit events would not count or otherwise affect a teams ranking should they play against other circuit teams in any non-Circuit event, such as non-Circuit league play, etc.

The weighted performance rankings I compiled for VBKO were sort of an early attempt at this.

[Catch-22]

This conversation has gone on long enough. The easier the pool play schedule is for a team, the better their chances are to win the tourney. We're all playing in these tourneys to win them. The same reason you want the #1 seed to get the cakewalk pool play like you've had at the last two tourneys is the same reason teams #3-whatever are trying to improve their draws. Don't get all high and mighty because #3-whatever want to improve their chances for success.

Blah blah blah. Panick Attack just won. We went through the "gauntlet." #6 having a different schedule than #12 is socialist. All teams ranked below Panick are the exact same. Blah blah blah.

[JellyDogg]

It boggles my mind how some people on one hand get all jacked up talking about how it's all about competition and top teams and tough games every time, then on the other hand whine at the suggestion that maybe they should play a tough opponent or two before lunch just like everyone else.

[crAsh]

I can't stop laughing about this ridiculousness

Maybe it is my love for 1-AA/FCS football...maybe it was my soccer/field hockey tournaments growing up.

There is always seeding.
Pool 1 is always #1, the two middle teams, and the last team and so on and so on.
(FCS only does 4 seedings then it's essentially random draw taking into considerations the school's bids to hold "home games" but that's TMI.)

Even when I coached 10yo girls soccer in Arlington and U-10 girls field hockey in VB...Pool Play was the same.

Any errors from standard seeding stinks...but if we're playing "pool play" the pools should be divided with some consistency--as they WERE done in VB. (other than the error of people playing BOTH 1 and 2, which was just an oversight)

People not understanding how brackets work = no cause for complaining.


That is all!!

[Trey it Up]

It boggles my mind how some people on one hand get all jacked up talking about how it's all about competition and top teams and tough games every time, then on the other hand whine at the suggestion that maybe they should play a tough opponent or two before lunch just like everyone else.

Just as it boggles my mind that the same people that have been promoting the Circuit and wanting more good teams and a deeper talent pool whine and cry when they get exactly that. God forbid new up and coming teams like BiB, Flying V, etc. come in and take what is rightfully yours! "Who do they think they are? Don't they have any respect for the founders of competitive kickball?" Get over yourself. If you go winless in a tournament it's because you aren't that good. It's not because you got a tough draw. If you cant win a single game out of four against middle tier teams in pool play, what are you whining about? Clearly you weren't going to win the Championship.

Find me a competitive league that doesn't follow the same rudimentary criteria that VBKO and other Circuit tournaments employ, please. NFL? No. MLB? No. Nascar? No. Tennis? No. Soccer? No. Bowling (seriously, it's gotta be bowling)? No. I think I just ran out of sports.

[2_easy]

It boggles my mind how some people on one hand get all jacked up talking about how it's all about competition and top teams and tough games every time, then on the other hand whine at the suggestion that maybe they should play a tough opponent or two before lunch just like everyone else.

Just as it boggles my mind that the same people that have been promoting the Circuit and wanting more good teams and a deeper talent pool whine and cry when they get exactly that. God forbid new up and coming teams like BiB, Flying V, etc. come in and take what is rightfully yours! "Who do they think they are? Don't they have any respect for the founders of competitive kickball?" Get over yourself. If you go winless in a tournament it's because you aren't that good. It's not because you got a tough draw. If you cant win a single game out of four against middle tier teams in pool play, what are you whining about? Clearly you weren't going to win the Championship.

Find me a competitive league that doesn't follow the same rudimentary criteria that VBKO and other Circuit tournaments employ, please. NFL? No. MLB? No. Nascar? No. Tennis? No. Soccer? No. Bowling (seriously, it's gotta be bowling)? No. I think I just ran out of sports.

What about the olympics? which includes baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

The fact that some of you think that mine and Trey's point/ argument is so that we have an easy morning is so ridiculous. I have been in "pools of death" many times and enjoyed it. But we are talking about seedings and how tournaments/brackets 101 works here. The basics. If the circuit was just to make up rules and throw all common sense out the door then I think Panik,MB,FL and Balls deep would have no problem having a small 4 team tournament every 3 or 4 months doing a round robin followed by double elim. Its not about the prize $ or having an"easy pool"..its about doing things the right way.

[Catch-22]

It boggles my mind how some people on one hand get all jacked up talking about how it's all about competition and top teams and tough games every time, then on the other hand whine at the suggestion that maybe they should play a tough opponent or two before lunch just like everyone else.

Just as it boggles my mind that the same people that have been promoting the Circuit and wanting more good teams and a deeper talent pool whine and cry when they get exactly that. God forbid new up and coming teams like BiB, Flying V, etc. come in and take what is rightfully yours! "Who do they think they are? Don't they have any respect for the founders of competitive kickball?" Get over yourself. If you go winless in a tournament it's because you aren't that good. It's not because you got a tough draw. If you cant win a single game out of four against middle tier teams in pool play, what are you whining about? Clearly you weren't going to win the Championship.

Find me a competitive league that doesn't follow the same rudimentary criteria that VBKO and other Circuit tournaments employ, please. NFL? No. MLB? No. Nascar? No. Tennis? No. Soccer? No. Bowling (seriously, it's gotta be bowling)? No. I think I just ran out of sports.

I have no idea what you're babbling about. I want every seeded team to have a proportionally more difficult pool play schedule based on seed: #1 (easiest) - #14 or whatever (hardest). VBKO didn't do that, and claiming they did is just incorrect. I get that there were limitations based on geographic distribution and the number of teams. I'm not pissed at anyone. Shit, I didn't even play in this tournament. Similar to Timberwolf's suggestion, I just think going forward the schedule should focus more on the seeds and less on the geography, since geography has nothing to do with the competitive aspect of the tourney and is more based on the "fun" aspect you've been railing against all day.

[Catch-22]

The fact that some of you think that mine and Trey's point/ argument is so that we have an easy morning is so ridiculous. I have been in "pools of death" many times and enjoyed it. But we are talking about seedings and how tournaments/brackets 101 works here. The basics. If the circuit was just to make up rules and throw all common sense out the door then I think Panik,MB,FL and Balls deep would have no problem having a small 4 team tournament every 3 or 4 months doing a round robin followed by double elim. Its not about the prize $ or having an"easy pool"..its about doing things the right way.

I'm not associating you with Trey at all. You completely understand how a tournament with seeds is supposed to work.

[JellyDogg]

It boggles my mind how some people on one hand get all jacked up talking about how it's all about competition and top teams and tough games every time, then on the other hand whine at the suggestion that maybe they should play a tough opponent or two before lunch just like everyone else.

Just as it boggles my mind that the same people that have been promoting the Circuit and wanting more good teams and a deeper talent pool whine and cry when they get exactly that. God forbid new up and coming teams like BiB, Flying V, etc. come in and take what is rightfully yours! "Who do they think they are? Don't they have any respect for the founders of competitive kickball?" Get over yourself. If you go winless in a tournament it's because you aren't that good. It's not because you got a tough draw. If you cant win a single game out of four against middle tier teams in pool play, what are you whining about? Clearly you weren't going to win the Championship.

Find me a competitive league that doesn't follow the same rudimentary criteria that VBKO and other Circuit tournaments employ, please. NFL? No. MLB? No. Nascar? No. Tennis? No. Soccer? No. Bowling (seriously, it's gotta be bowling)? No. I think I just ran out of sports.

So, in summary, you're a hypocrite that likes to make wild, rambling comments based completely in fantasy to divert attention from that fact? Gotcha. Thanks.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

The problem is that some of the "mid tier" teams are not mid tier at all. They are more like lower tier but they get put in the mid seedings due to how long they have been around for.

[2_easy]

The problem is that some of the "mid tier" teams are not mid tier at all. They are more like lower tier but they get put in the mid seedings due to how long they have been around for.

Hey. I like the players of LIU. Leave them out of this!

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Ok so lets say these 16 teams were the ONLY ones at an event(casey's poll). Each of the rankings were voted on by each teams captain.

1. Meatballs (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (272)
2. Panik Attack (Virginia Beach, VA) (255)
3. Fully Loaded (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (233)
4. Lock It Up (New York) (213)
5. Balls Deeper (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (200)
6. Others Shot Callers (Washington D.C) (176)
7. Just Kickin It (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (162)
8. It's Just TI Squaring (New York) (128)
9. Sofa King Good (Los Angeles, CA) (117)
10. Cobra Kai (Jacksonville, FL) (116)
11. New York Shower Hammers (New York) (91)
12. The Situation (Virginia Beach, VA) (78)
13. Midwest Mushroom Stampers (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (49)
14. UTZZZ (Miami, FL) (42)
15. Scoregasm (Jacksonville, FL) (40)
16. Flying V (Atlanta, GA) (32)

pool a

meatballs
flying v
TII
Sofa


pool b

panik
jki
cobra
scorgasm


pool c

fully loaded
osc
nysh
utzzz


pool d

liu
balls deep
situation
mms





Would anyone complain about this?

[machinegunkelly]

Ok so lets say these 16 teams were the ONLY ones at an event(casey's poll). Each of the rankings were voted on by each teams captain.

1. Meatballs (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (272)
2. Panik Attack (Virginia Beach, VA) (255)
3. Fully Loaded (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (233)
4. Lock It Up (New York) (213)
5. Balls Deeper (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (200)
6. Others Shot Callers (Washington D.C) (176)
7. Just Kickin It (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (162)
8. It's Just TI Squaring (New York) (128)
9. Sofa King Good (Los Angeles, CA) (117)
10. Cobra Kai (Jacksonville, FL) (116)
11. New York Shower Hammers (New York) (91)
12. The Situation (Virginia Beach, VA) (78)
13. Midwest Mushroom Stampers (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (49)
14. UTZZZ (Miami, FL) (42)
15. Scoregasm (Jacksonville, FL) (40)
16. Flying V (Atlanta, GA) (32)

pool a

meatballs
flying v
TII
Sofa


pool b

panik
jki
cobra
scorgasm


pool c

fully loaded
osc
nysh
utzzz


pool d

liu
balls deep
situation
mms





Would anyone complain about this?

..
the dc kids n krabbas prob would....i seriously would love to make the pools for the next tournament....i would make them all even and take into consideration what teams have played what in previous tournament.....if just get rid of the # next to the team then u morons wouldnt argue about a system that every sport in the world uses

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Ok so lets say these 16 teams were the ONLY ones at an event(casey's poll). Each of the rankings were voted on by each teams captain.

1. Meatballs (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (272)
2. Panik Attack (Virginia Beach, VA) (255)
3. Fully Loaded (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (233)
4. Lock It Up (New York) (213)
5. Balls Deeper (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (200)
6. Others Shot Callers (Washington D.C) (176)
7. Just Kickin It (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (162)
8. It's Just TI Squaring (New York) (128)
9. Sofa King Good (Los Angeles, CA) (117)
10. Cobra Kai (Jacksonville, FL) (116)
11. New York Shower Hammers (New York) (91)
12. The Situation (Virginia Beach, VA) (78)
13. Midwest Mushroom Stampers (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (49)
14. UTZZZ (Miami, FL) (42)
15. Scoregasm (Jacksonville, FL) (40)
16. Flying V (Atlanta, GA) (32)

pool a

meatballs
flying v
TII
Sofa


pool b

panik
jki
cobra
scorgasm


pool c

fully loaded
osc
nysh
utzzz


pool d

liu
balls deep
situation
mms





Would anyone complain about this?

..
the dc kids n krabbas prob would....i seriously would love to make the pools for the next tournament....i would make them all even and take into consideration what teams have played what in previous tournament.....if just get rid of the # next to the team then u morons wouldnt argue about a system that every sport in the world uses

Its funny cause you look at this and I personally think pool A (or MAYBE pool D) would have the toughest 3 game morning in the entire tournament. But oh well thats it it worked out. Lets play and get it done..

Seems to me that some on here think PANIK and MB are asking for easy pools. That is what annoys the shit out of me. Because according to the coaches poll the meatballs sfko pool had in it the #10 and #16 team in the country. So how is that a "cake walk"? And this is the poll that either they voted on our their captain. We played 2 unranked,#10,#16,#15,#5,#3,#2....So 6 out of 8 games against "ranked" teams to win a tournament. Yeah what a cake walk in a 30 team tourney.

Not to mention if any of these freaking guys looked in to the archives of past tournament there have been some nasty pools.

The problem is they forget everything about the past and just remember the last current event and act like its ALWAYS like that. Its the typical kickballers state of mind for the most part. Like if a real good player has 1 bad at bat and they see it he now is over rated. If a catcher that made 12 errors in the day made 1 nasty play for an out he is now "top 5 catcher". One team LOSES to the tournament winner by 1 in pool play they must be good to right?

[Dematas]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

Hell yeah. That'd be similar to my K365 '09 pool of Frosty Balls (08 FC Champs), One Night Stand (09 K365 Champs), and Dematas' NY team.

That was quite a pool and most of my team, "The Show Must Go On" were new to competitive kickball, not Trey new, legit new.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

Hell yeah. That'd be similar to my K365 '09 pool of Frosty Balls (08 FC Champs), One Night Stand (09 K365 Champs), and Dematas' NY team.

That was quite a pool and most of that team, "The Show Must Go On" were new to competitive kickball, not Trey new, legit new.

Remember these pools?

MB Meatballs(Ft Lauderdale)
DF Dumpster fire(New York)
BD Balls Deep(Ft Lauderdale)
BB BigBallers (St Louis)
HH The Hoboken Well Hungarians(New York)

TB Tricky Bunnies(Ft Lauderdale)
MS Menace 2 sobriety(Metro DC)
CK Cobra Kai(Jacksonville)
PL Pretty Lingers(West Palm/Boca)
MO Monday's (New York)

HW Hey Whoa(New York)
RR Riff Raff(Ft Lauderdale)
PS Partially Screwed(Ft Lauderdale)
SS Super Skinnies (Orlando)
RA RamRod(New York)

[Dematas]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

Hell yeah. That'd be similar to my K365 '09 pool of Frosty Balls (08 FC Champs), One Night Stand (09 K365 Champs), and Dematas' NY team.

That was quite a pool and most of that team, "The Show Must Go On" were new to competitive kickball, not Trey new, legit new.

Remember these pools?

MB Meatballs(Ft Lauderdale)
DF Dumpster fire(New York)
BD Balls Deep(Ft Lauderdale)
BB BigBallers (St Louis)
HH The Hoboken Well Hungarians(New York)

TB Tricky Bunnies(Ft Lauderdale)
MS Menace 2 sobriety(Metro DC)
CK Cobra Kai(Jacksonville)
PL Pretty Lingers(West Palm/Boca)
MO Monday's (New York)

HW Hey Whoa(New York)
RR Riff Raff(Ft Lauderdale)
PS Partially Screwed(Ft Lauderdale)
SS Super Skinnies (Orlando)
RA RamRod(New York)

2009 Florida tourney? What a competitive tourney that was. Are we supposed to talk about 1-bounce kickball? Either way, I didn't bring it up.

[machinegunkelly]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

Hell yeah. That'd be similar to my K365 '09 pool of Frosty Balls (08 FC Champs), One Night Stand (09 K365 Champs), and Dematas' NY team.

That was quite a pool and most of that team, "The Show Must Go On" were new to competitive kickball, not Trey new, legit new.

Remember these pools?

MB Meatballs(Ft Lauderdale)
DF Dumpster fire(New York)
BD Balls Deep(Ft Lauderdale)
BB BigBallers (St Louis)
HH The Hoboken Well Hungarians(New York)

TB Tricky Bunnies(Ft Lauderdale)
MS Menace 2 sobriety(Metro DC)
CK Cobra Kai(Jacksonville)
PL Pretty Lingers(West Palm/Boca)
MO Monday's (New York)

HW Hey Whoa(New York)
RR Riff Raff(Ft Lauderdale)
PS Partially Screwed(Ft Lauderdale)
SS Super Skinnies (Orlando)
RA RamRod(New York)

2009 Florida tourney? What a competitive tourney that was. Are we supposed to talk about 1-bounce kickball? Either way, I didn't bring it up.

too bad the champ game ended in a tie

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Hey Whoa won that game

[Dematas]

2009 Florida tourney? What a competitive tourney that was. Are we supposed to talk about 1-bounce kickball? Either way, I didn't bring it up.


too bad the champ game ended in a tie

Just like NY in 2010

[Dematas]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

Not that it matters, but does not play waka, so we do not play against LIU and NYSH, so not sure that us playing each other in a tourney is a big deal.

[Howitzer]

Agreed, first time I played with a lot of the team. We will play who we get and that's all.

[Pobbie4]

MBK: That is a text book bracket. I don't really feel the need to quote it all again.

Seeding and rankings are going to cause debate, regardless of the issue. There has to be a #1 and a #14 (using VBKO). Ive been on both ends at different points in time, 2 and q'ing as a 1 seed and running the table as a 3 or 4 seed, both in double elimination 8 team tournaments. I have also been on an AQ team (4 seed out of 4) who was playing on the last day of a regional for a Super Regional bid. Why I bring my past experiences up: The number in front of the team name means nothing at game time, only in the brackets where the closer to #1 the "easier" the road to a title.

With how The Circuit stands today there are going to be a lot more of the "pools of death" as y'all were discussing from SFKO 09, that predates my kickball days, compared to any adult "rec" sport out there. Unless a team pulls an availables or a local team who is there to party a majority of games going to come down to a play made/not made, lack of execution or a mistake.

I said it before, there are going to be more teams going home early shaking their heads wondering what caused a bad day at the park. I know that was iB's thought leaving Red Wing Park and I am assuming The Situation was in the same mind frame at SFKO. Regarding iB, I know whats coming from a couple of you based on our bad day at the park: we are a lower tier team, we do not recruit new talent well enough or we do not practice enough.

[pDuncOnYourFace]

I'd prefer a tournament like this with 14 teams

Pool a
1
4
5
7
9
11
13

pool b
2
3
6
8
10
12
14

round Robin
everyone gets 6 games
winner from each pool plays for ship
you could even have all the seeds play another 2 vs 2 3 vs 3,,,,,
schedules are more balanced
Pool play games matter more

obviously everyone wants to win these tournaments but the reality is most of these teams are writing a checks to meatballs and panik before tournament ever starts. If these teams aren't winning they might as well get more games against other good teams

[jdeep]

Ok so lets say these 16 teams were the ONLY ones at an event(casey's poll). Each of the rankings were voted on by each teams captain.

1. Meatballs (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (272)
2. Panik Attack (Virginia Beach, VA) (255)
3. Fully Loaded (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (233)
4. Lock It Up (New York) (213)
5. Balls Deeper (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (200)
6. Others Shot Callers (Washington D.C) (176)
7. Just Kickin It (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (162)
8. It's Just TI Squaring (New York) (128)
9. Sofa King Good (Los Angeles, CA) (117)
10. Cobra Kai (Jacksonville, FL) (116)
11. New York Shower Hammers (New York) (91)
12. The Situation (Virginia Beach, VA) (78)
13. Midwest Mushroom Stampers (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (49)
14. UTZZZ (Miami, FL) (42)
15. Scoregasm (Jacksonville, FL) (40)
16. Flying V (Atlanta, GA) (32)

pool a

meatballs
flying v
TII
Sofa


pool b

panik
jki
cobra
scorgasm


pool c

fully loaded
osc
nysh
utzzz


pool d

liu
balls deep
situation
mms





Would anyone complain about this?

..
the dc kids n krabbas prob would....i seriously would love to make the pools for the next tournament....i would make them all even and take into consideration what teams have played what in previous tournament.....if just get rid of the # next to the team then u morons wouldnt argue about a system that every sport in the world uses

Its funny cause you look at this and I personally think pool A (or MAYBE pool D) would have the toughest 3 game morning in the entire tournament. But oh well thats it it worked out. Lets play and get it done..

Seems to me that some on here think PANIK and MB are asking for easy pools. That is what annoys the shit out of me. Because according to the coaches poll the meatballs sfko pool had in it the #10 and #16 team in the country. So how is that a "cake walk"? And this is the poll that either they voted on our their captain. We played 2 unranked,#10,#16,#15,#5,#3,#2....So 6 out of 8 games against "ranked" teams to win a tournament. Yeah what a cake walk in a 30 team tourney.

Not to mention if any of these freaking guys looked in to the archives of past tournament there have been some nasty pools.

The problem is they forget everything about the past and just remember the last current event and act like its ALWAYS like that. Its the typical kickballers state of mind for the most part. Like if a real good player has 1 bad at bat and they see it he now is over rated. If a catcher that made 12 errors in the day made 1 nasty play for an out he is now "top 5 catcher". One team LOSES to the tournament winner by 1 in pool play they must be good to right?

I dont think anyone thinks the meatballs want an easy road or have had an easy road. I think its more the way the pools are done, which is out of your control. But this whole thread is about the pools, not elimination. Obviously once you get to elimination, everything is out the window and you have to beat everyone. If you have to play #1, #2, #3 and #4 in a row, that's how its supposed to be. But can you honestly tell me that you would have rather played the situation, nysh, and chicken it to ghana in pool play over the teams you played? I definitely think you would have gone 3-0 against those teams...that's not the point. The point is that it just takes more effort which in turn affects most team's elimination run b/c they are already half dead.

[krabbas]

Ok so lets say these 16 teams were the ONLY ones at an event(casey's poll). Each of the rankings were voted on by each teams captain.

1. Meatballs (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (272)
2. Panik Attack (Virginia Beach, VA) (255)
3. Fully Loaded (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (233)
4. Lock It Up (New York) (213)
5. Balls Deeper (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (200)
6. Others Shot Callers (Washington D.C) (176)
7. Just Kickin It (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (162)
8. It's Just TI Squaring (New York) (128)
9. Sofa King Good (Los Angeles, CA) (117)
10. Cobra Kai (Jacksonville, FL) (116)
11. New York Shower Hammers (New York) (91)
12. The Situation (Virginia Beach, VA) (78)
13. Midwest Mushroom Stampers (Fort Lauderdale, FL) (49)
14. UTZZZ (Miami, FL) (42)
15. Scoregasm (Jacksonville, FL) (40)
16. Flying V (Atlanta, GA) (32)

pool a

meatballs
flying v
TII
Sofa


pool b

panik
jki
cobra
scorgasm


pool c

fully loaded
osc
nysh
utzzz


pool d

liu
balls deep
situation
mms





Would anyone complain about this?

..
the dc kids n krabbas prob would....i seriously would love to make the pools for the next tournament....i would make them all even and take into consideration what teams have played what in previous tournament.....if just get rid of the # next to the team then u morons wouldnt argue about a system that every sport in the world uses

I would complain only because my team isn't in the field. Haha.... But no, I wouldn't complain if it was seeded that was in a captains poll provided that A) there were enough captains participating to have a large enough sample size and B) there was some sort of resume / preview thread (kind of like what Casey had posted) for the captains to use to ensure there are informed votes being made.

My whole point has been about PROCESS. Show me the process, show me it's fair and unbiased, and I wouldn't complain. I think a full captains vote for the pretourney seedings would be fair...

With that said, if we did do the pre-ranking, than the seeds should matter, the schedules should show accordingly, and we shouldn't have any teams matched up with the top 2 seeds in pool play.

[Trey it Up]

Add more depth. We played the four games against the top three teams in VBKO and alternated innings with our starters and reserves so everyone stayed fresh all day.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Below are some pools from past events. Still think that the top seeds always have easy pools?

1 Meatballs (#1)
2 Tiki Titans (#6)
3 The Situation (#7)
4 Kickball365 Road Team (#12)
5 Sloppy Mommas (#13)


1 Panik Attack (#2)
2 Fully Loaded (#5)
3 Mo Tussin (#8)
4 Just for Kicks (#11)

Panik Attack
FullyLOADED
Ramrod
Drinkers With A Kicking Problem
Superdudes

Meatballs
Get to Da Choppa
Wu-Tang Killers
Inglorious Bastards

[pDuncOnYourFace]

Add more depth. We played the four games against the top three teams in VBKO and alternated innings with our starters and reserves so everyone stayed fresh all day.

You would have been a well rested team playing a gassed situation in semis without any subs

while you were sitting in the shade having a bartles and James game 1 against skittles. Blake was throwing his arm out and getting fatigued from being in the sun.

Having legit subs is great.. but most teams subs wouldn't have been able to hang in pool b

You played 4 tough games out of 7
If nysh had managed to beat Fl that would have been tough game 7 of 7 with all their starters playing each game
There's no way that's fair

If your team is so good and so deep man up and ask for a tougher pool play schedule

[Trey it Up]

Add more depth. We played the four games against the top three teams in VBKO and alternated innings with our starters and reserves so everyone stayed fresh all day.

You would have been a well rested team playing a gassed situation in semis without any subs

while you were sitting in the shade having a bartles and James game 1 against skittles. Blake was throwing his arm out and getting fatigued from being in the sun.

Having legit subs is great.. but most teams subs wouldn't have been able to hang in pool b

You played 4 tough games out of 7
If nysh had managed to beat Fl that would have been tough game 7 of 7 with all their starters playing each game
There's no way that's fair

If your team is so good and so deep man up and ask for a tougher pool play schedule

I only played 50% of the innings (or less) in our tough games, too. Whether it was a 1-0, 2-0, or 17-0 win, we alternated our starters every inning. We didn't ride our starters into the ground in our two tightly contested games against FV. We made sure our starters were fresh throughout the game. It's not our fault that other teams decided to play their starters every inning of every game. That's just poor management.

[pDuncOnYourFace]

Add more depth. We played the four games against the top three teams in VBKO and alternated innings with our starters and reserves so everyone stayed fresh all day.

You would have been a well rested team playing a gassed situation in semis without any subs

while you were sitting in the shade having a bartles and James game 1 against skittles. Blake was throwing his arm out and getting fatigued from being in the sun.

Having legit subs is great.. but most teams subs wouldn't have been able to hang in pool b

You played 4 tough games out of 7
If nysh had managed to beat Fl that would have been tough game 7 of 7 with all their starters playing each game
There's no way that's fair

If your team is so good and so deep man up and ask for a tougher pool play schedule

I only played 50% of the innings (or less) in our tough games, too. Whether it was a 1-0, 2-0, or 17-0 win, we alternated our starters every inning. We didn't ride our starters into the ground in our two tightly contested games against FV. We made sure our starters were fresh throughout the game. It's not our fault that other teams decided to play their starters every inning of every game. That's just poor management.

so if your poolplay schedule was
meatballs
meatballs
meatballs
meatballs

for 4 games you wouldn't play your strarters more?