Kickball365.com Natl. Power Poll Vol. 4 No. 2 (Fall 2009)

[Lost_Sage]

Well folks ... this was long overdue. Maybe after a long-day of new-age, over- -rized salt, the message board does need to get back to its roots. The Poll is certainly one of them.

Let's face it ... there is something for everyone to dislike in this Poll. Teams are not necessarily ranked in order of their FC finish. (As easy it would have been to press Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V.) Nor their finishes at any of the 5 other travel tourneys (although I did compile one hell of a tracking spreadsheet to dissect trends in tourney performance). If you're looking for those orders of finish, well, read the appropriate results threads. The Poll is not about repeating those results back to the community.

And new teams the peanut gallery will love to dissect appear on this list. (People conveniently forget, of course, that VA Beach and Florida teams were ignored during their first appearances on this Poll back in 2006.)

Then again, the Poll was never meant to be an exact science. The Poll is meant to produce discussion (hopefully meaningful debate rather than mere preening). It is meant to look both backwards at the 2009 body of work as well as forwards at the potential future in 2010.

We should be excited that new teams from new areas on here. This Poll's debuting team may be tomorrow's Circuit or Founders' Cup front-runner (see, e.g. DWAKP and Naughty->Frosty Balls). As much as the thought of a winner of a Circuit crown or a FC coming from a new area truthfully unsettles some members of the kickball community (who would never admit otherwise), it is a possibility we should, despite our own selfish team affiliations, welcome nonetheless. Without that possibility, the kickball we all love will cease to grow.

This may be the last WAKA-centric Poll, with the advent of the Circuit. I am not averse to using one of the formulas that have been proposed for the CSS as a potential basis for the Poll going forward. I may still do a WAKA-only poll separate from the National Poll -- who knows.

So, without further ado:

Kickball365’s National Power Poll 2009 – Fall (11-20-09)

Rank Team Division Comments
1 The Others DC Liberty, DC Capital The goal was to win the big one. Mission accomplished. Only time will tell if the super-team stays together, but if they do, they enter the 2010 WAKA campaign as the favorites.

2 Balls Deeper FL Riptide, FL Beach No denying the run at FC and through Riptide. It’s always been the same top four in the FTL, but has the pecking order changed now? Will grumblings about their lack of depth continue?

3 Just Kickin’ It FL Beach Sometimes the folks in maroon don’t get the pub of their much louder SoFla brethren. But quiet is how JKI likes it. And being the current Coconut Keg holders counts for something.

4 Best Coast Ballers CA Gold Rush If last year was the opening act, this year was the coming out party for the West Coast flagship. The peanut gallery may bemoan the hometown & FC SOS … but BCB is headed in the right direction. Up.

5 Riff Raff for Life FL Riptide, FL Beach FC was the breakout performance we knew RR had in them. For some reason, it didn’t quell its critics, who feasted on the semifinal bow out in Riptide and on the so-called roster “rumors.”

6 Meatballs FL Beach JKI took the last hard duel in Beach. Then they dropped a tough decision at FC to a RR team they previously owned. Lots of chirping ensued. Still, don’t count the Meat out … they always reload.

7 Make It Rain VA Shore A consistent run during the early tourney season, along with generally strong league performances in Tidewater. But the tourney steam seemed to run out at the end of ’09.

8 Dumpster Fire NY Star Made a great FC run and have proven to be top dogs so far in the Big Apple over the past few months (NYCGN, Star Spring and Fall). The talent is there, and the mental game is vastly improved.

9 Frosty Balls VA Recess A tough tilt against a rapidly improving Maine squad, a slightly earlier than expected bow at FC to a determined BD team, and a loss in Tidewater has the aging defending champs down, although not out.

10 Ballers and Shot Callers DC Capital Not quite what they wanted out of K365 and FC, but more proof they can compete at the highest level. Look for them to turn a corner, or two, in 2010.

11 Lock It Up NY Star, NY Liberty A challenging year for the folks in orange, and now a big task ahead of them to buck the quarterfinal curse. Evening the score against DF in the Star postseason is step 1 on that journey.

12 Tiki Titans VA Shore The original purple empire hopes to build on this past year’s modest return to tourney ball with a more loaded roster. Another team hoping for an Others-like return to past glory in 2010.

13 Relax and Let It Happen TX Capital An impressive debut for the Texans, this year’s Cinderella story at FC XII. Although they ran into the BCB buzzsaw, it’ll be great to see them take this year’s lessons and improve even more.

14 We Kick Your Balls AZ Fire A slow pool play beginning for WKYB and a quality win to start the knockout round at their 2nd FC. But the Lone Star Staters put an end to that campaign. We’ll get a better look at WKYB in March.

15 Sofa King Good CA Hollywood Very glad the Kings made it in to FC at the last minute. Advanced easily out of pool play, gave eventual champs Los Otros a nice test. Here’s hoping for that SoCal tourney one of these days.

16 Tricky Bunnies FL Bedrock This is a swan song of a ranking, at the close of this franchise’s run. Just struggled a bit too much against GFC, BSC, and WKYB on a Vegas day when it needed to add consistency to its talent.

17 Alpha Omega VA Shore Kind of a Jekyll-Hyde season for AO, with impressive draws against FB and MIR. Still left to be seen if AO, or some other amalgam, solidifies as the 4th VA Beach travel team.

18 Champs Like It Tickled MA Independence The best team the unforgiving FC registration system left home. One wonders if they would have been able to carry Beantown to a nice run in Vegas.

19 All Stars Only ME Superhero Lots of doubters on the street for the rookies from way Northeast. But ASO proved to have a quick learning curve and certainly got the attention of Frosty and others with their debut.

20 Little Lebowski Urban Achievers UT Mountain Newcomers from the Salt Lake State shocked Cobra Kai before falling to BCB’s run of destiny. We always love to see what happens the year after a quality W on the biggest stage.

WL Super Skinnies FL Central Skinnies couldn’t quite get it going against the other Poll teams, with tough Ls to DF and the Meatballs.

WL Cobra Kai FL Atlantic Much-heralded Leg Sweepers through to knockout round after close match w/BD, but surprised by resilient LLUA squad. Hopefully they’ll be restless enough for a more even showing in 2010.

[wilson]

nice!

[Dematas]

As always, good work Shane. I can only imagine how difficult this is getting with all the variables that need to be factored in these days.

[Dematas]

11 Lock It Up NY Star, NY Liberty A challenging year for the folks in orange, and now a big task ahead of them to buck the quarterfinal curse. Evening the score against DF in the Star postseason is step 1 on that journey.

Shane, are you saying that we should skip the early postseason rounds and DF & LIU should just play in the finals?

[Lost_Sage]

No, not at all. Just that if we're to improve our travel tourney performance in the year to come, the first big task is to give you a better game, should we meet in the postseason, than we did on November 3rd.

11 Lock It Up NY Star, NY Liberty A challenging year for the folks in orange, and now a big task ahead of them to buck the quarterfinal curse. Evening the score against DF in the Star postseason is step 1 on that journey.

Shane, are you saying that we should skip the early postseason rounds and DF & LIU should just play in the finals?

[admin]

Hey folks, help spread the word about this discussion!

Please post on Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, YouSpace, whatever. Thanks.

[Lost_Sage]

Thanks. The CSS will make a lot of this moot. Atlhough people will always want a vehicle for discussion in between tourneys (even if there actually end up being Circuit events every month). Hence the daunting possibility of 2 polls (Circuit, WAKA), and not just one.

Can't wait to see how the rest of world reacts when they wake up ...

As always, good work Shane. I can only imagine how difficult this is getting with all the variables that need to be factored in these days.

[-TK-]

I appreciate that you put this together... What are the criteria if you don't mind? It would help me (and us) to understand why this ranking means so much.

[Dematas]

Thanks. The CSS will make a lot of this moot. Atlhough people will always want a vehicle for discussion in between tourneys (even if there actually end up being Circuit events every month). Hence the daunting possibility of 2 polls (Circuit, WAKA), and not just one.

Can't wait to see how the rest of world reacts when they wake up ...

As always, good work Shane. I can only imagine how difficult this is getting with all the variables that need to be factored in these days.

I can see people not liking certain teams and their positions based on only playing in limited tourneys. Like I said, I can't imagine all the work that goes into the poll and all the factors and whatever else needs to be done.

[Lost_Sage]

The ranking doesn't mean so much. I have always contended, since I have put this Poll out, that the discussion the Poll promotes is far more important than the actual numbers assigned to each team. The Poll is about sparking serious, thoughtful discussion on the growth of competitive kickball. The rankings are a starting point for that, and no more.

Roughly speaking, the original idea of the Poll (which started at 16 teams) was to envision the most competitive hypothetical division possible (given the max size of WAKA division is 16). The factors I use to rank teams are:

Major factors:
(1) Overall record
(2) Tournament strength-of-schedule (also including W-L-T, quality wins, finish, etc.)
(3) Division strength-of-schedule
(4) Recent trends

Minor factors:
(5) Scouting observations (in person or from Poll sources)
(6) Long-term historical performance

I appreciate that you put this together... What are the criteria if you don't mind? It would help me (and us) to understand why this ranking means so much.

[-TK-]

The ranking doesn't mean so much. I have always contended, since I have put this Poll out, that the discussion the Poll promotes is far more important than the actual numbers assigned to each team. The Poll is about sparking serious, thoughtful discussion on the growth of competitive kickball. The rankings are a starting point for that, and no more.

Roughly speaking, the original idea of the Poll (which started at 16 teams) was to envision the most competitive hypothetical division possible (given the max size of WAKA division is 16). The factors I use to rank teams are:

Major factors:
(1) Overall record
(2) Tournament strength-of-schedule (also including W-L-T, quality wins, finish, etc.)
(3) Division strength-of-schedule
(4) Recent trends

Minor factors:
(5) Scouting observations (in person or from Poll sources)
(6) Long-term historical performance

I appreciate that you put this together... What are the criteria if you don't mind? It would help me (and us) to understand why this ranking means so much.

So sorry Shane i don't mean to sound like an idiot, but 1-4 has equal importance? or no? Is there a sliding scale? I'm not trying to be a dummy and say that "tell me #1 is more important by 20%", but is it all equal?

Is there a thread that I can go to instead of asking?

[Lost_Sage]

The difficult thing is only getting to go on what I see/read (or hear from trustworthy Poll sources). In the good old days, scoops from sources were productive exchanges -- the source would identify a team, I would reply back and ask probing questions to assess whether it appeared legit or merely warranted watch list consideration.

And of course, a team will always argue that the sample size being taken of its performance is too small. A team will also argue that it can only play (and beat) who it draws in the division at home (where, for example, not enough has been done to build a more broadly competitive division like the ones only 3 major areas currently enjoy) and in tourney play on the road.

Also, all-star teams make this equation a hot mess. (Cue the debacle from the post-TKO1 poll on the subject of how to project the impact of the NYB victory on a WAKA-based poll.) It is one of several reasons I believe the Circuit should promote and encourage kickball franchises for the growth of competitive kickball in general and for true ranking purposes specifically. To be fair, you can grab availables, and yes, that's sometimes the reality of getting people to travel. But it's just not something the Circuit will bother to reward beyond the scope of winning 1 tournament with such a team. The point is to get the Circuit to the point where teams can stay as consistent franchises and attract their own sponsorships, and indeed have every incentive to do so to win the (currently funded) Circuit events and the (eventually funded) Circuit crown.

I can see people not liking certain teams and their positions based on only playing in limited tourneys. Like I said, I can't imagine all the work that goes into the poll and all the factors and whatever else needs to be done.

[Dematas]

The difficult thing is only getting to go on what I see/read (or hear from trustworthy Poll sources). In the good old days, scoops from sources were productive exchanges -- the source would identify a team, I would reply back and ask probing questions to assess whether it appeared legit or merely warranted watch list consideration.

And of course, a team will always argue that the sample size being taken of its performance is too small. A team will also argue that it can only play (and beat) who it draws in the division at home (where, for example, not enough has been done to build a more broadly competitive division like the ones only 3 major areas currently enjoy) and in tourney play on the road.

Also, all-star teams make this equation a hot mess. (Cue the debacle from the post-TKO1 poll on the subject of how to project the impact of the NYB victory on a WAKA-based poll.) It is one of several reasons I believe the Circuit should promote and encourage kickball franchises for the growth of competitive kickball in general and for true ranking purposes specifically. To be fair, you can grab availables, and yes, that's sometimes the reality of getting people to travel. But it's just not something the Circuit will bother to reward beyond the scope of winning 1 tournament with such a team. The point is to get the Circuit to the point where teams can stay as consistent franchises and attract their own sponsorships, and indeed have every incentive to do so to win the (currently funded) Circuit events and the (eventually funded) Circuit crown.

I can see people not liking certain teams and their positions based on only playing in limited tourneys. Like I said, I can't imagine all the work that goes into the poll and all the factors and whatever else needs to be done.

Wow, you got me a bit tingly with this response.

[Lost_Sage]

No, they do not have equal weight. The balance will be different for each team, because each team will not have as much to go on with each factor. That is the blessing and the curse of a poll. The BCS I am not, nor ever will be.

JKI and BCB are two perfect examples. JKI has no travel tourney record but is reigning champs in the country's toughest division, which obviously counts a ton. BCB plays in a criminally weak region of the country -- many reasons for this, none of which are their fault -- but has gone from bracket participant in FC08 to very, very stacked in 2009, and is completely headed in the right direction. If anything, that they have put together such a solid team despite no homegrown power conference is worth noting.

Keep in mind that polls are snapshots of when they are released. Further division play and tourneys can and will change these impressions. As well they should.

The legacy criteria statement for the Poll disappeared in the great message board crash of 2007.

So sorry Shane i don't mean to sound like an idiot, but 1-4 has equal importance? or no? Is there a sliding scale? I'm not trying to be a dummy and say that "tell me #1 is more important by 20%", but is it all equal?

Is there a thread that I can go to instead of asking?

[-TK-]

No, they do not have equal weight. The balance will be different for each team, because each team will not have as much to go on with each factor. That is the blessing and the curse of a poll. The BCS I am not, nor ever will be.

JKI and BCB are two perfect examples. JKI has no travel tourney record but is reigning champs in the country's toughest division, which obviously counts a ton. BCB plays in a criminally weak region of the country -- many reasons for this, none of which are their fault -- but has gone from bracket participant in FC08 to very, very stacked in 2009, and is completely headed in the right direction. If anything, that they have put together such a solid team despite no homegrown power conference is worth noting.

Keep in mind that polls are snapshots of when they are released. Further division play and tourneys can and will change these impressions. As well they should.

The legacy criteria statement for the Poll disappeared in the great message board crash of 2007.

So sorry Shane i don't mean to sound like an idiot, but 1-4 has equal importance? or no? Is there a sliding scale? I'm not trying to be a dummy and say that "tell me #1 is more important by 20%", but is it all equal?

Is there a thread that I can go to instead of asking?

I 've had a lot of wine. I think I agree but I can't weigh in on the '07 crash cause I was just playing for fun then- no glory. Not that I matter but I'd like some time to soak this in... (and until I see letters instead of weird drunk symbols like I see now). I really have talked about this a lot but just to people I feel comfy around (not the MODS right now in case you haven't noticed) I may post my thoughts or I may PM you aggressively... either way it's just kickball!

[Lost_Sage]

Funny, I've only had 1 glass tonight. (I had the equivalent of 7 or so the night before.)

IJK, indeed.

And good night, or rather, good morning, as it were.

I 've had a lot of wine. I think I agree but I can't weigh in on the '07 crash cause I was just playing for fun then- no glory. Not that I matter but I'd like some time to soak this in... (and until I see letters instead of weird drunk symbols like I see now). I really have talked about this a lot but just to people I feel comfy around (not the MODS right now in case you haven't noticed) I may post my thoughts or I may PM you aggressively... either way it's just kickball!

[Dematas]

No, they do not have equal weight. The balance will be different for each team, because each team will not have as much to go on with each factor. That is the blessing and the curse of a poll. The BCS I am not, nor ever will be.

JKI and BCB are two perfect examples. JKI has no travel tourney record but is reigning champs in the country's toughest division, which obviously counts a ton. BCB plays in a criminally weak region of the country -- many reasons for this, none of which are their fault -- but has gone from bracket participant in FC08 to very, very stacked in 2009, and is completely headed in the right direction. If anything, that they have put together such a solid team despite no homegrown power conference is worth noting.

Keep in mind that polls are snapshots of when they are released. Further division play and tourneys can and will change these impressions. As well they should.

The legacy criteria statement for the Poll disappeared in the great message board crash of 2007.

So sorry Shane i don't mean to sound like an idiot, but 1-4 has equal importance? or no? Is there a sliding scale? I'm not trying to be a dummy and say that "tell me #1 is more important by 20%", but is it all equal?

Is there a thread that I can go to instead of asking?

I 've had a lot of wine. I think I agree but I can't weigh in on the '07 crash cause I was just playing for fun then- no glory. Not that I matter but I'd like some time to soak this in... (and until I see letters instead of weird drunk symbols like I see now). I really have talked about this a lot but just to people I feel comfy around (not the MODS right now in case you haven't noticed) I may post my thoughts or I may PM you aggressively... either way it's just kickball!

You are PWI, where is the MB police?

[admin]

[-TK-]

You are PWI, where is the MB police?

I'd post a response, but I'm scared of MOD Stalin's response... Night masters!

[machinegunkelly]

Shane i love you and really appreciate the effort but.......i want some of what u r smoking if thats really your power polll

[Paniky 69er]

Major factors:
(1) Overall record
(2) Tournament strength-of-schedule (also including W-L-T, quality wins, finish, etc.)
(3) Division strength-of-schedule
(4) Recent trends

Minor factors:
(5) Scouting observations (in person or from Poll sources)
(6) Long-term historical performance

I just want to compare my team, with your #1 team using your criteria:
1. Overall record, I don't know what The Other's overall record was for this past year, but I do know that MiR has fewer losses than we have victories over The Others.
2. We both attended the same tournaments. MiR finished ahead of The Others in three of the four.
3. VA Shore is so much stronger than wherever The Others play, it's ridiculous. Not to mention, MiR has won either the Regular Season or Tournament title in three out of three seasons.
4. They have beaten us most recently...once. But as you know, that doesn't make a trend. We are 5-1 against The Others.

I'm sure if we stack up 4-5 other teams in a similar manor, The Others would come out on the losing end. Is there a secret criteria that was used to justify The Other's #1 ranking? Or was FC the only tournament that was taken into consideration?

[McCoy]

The ranking doesn't mean so much. I have always contended, since I have put this Poll out, that the discussion the Poll promotes is far more important than the actual numbers assigned to each team. The Poll is about sparking serious, thoughtful discussion on the growth of competitive kickball. The rankings are a starting point for that, and no more.

Roughly speaking, the original idea of the Poll (which started at 16 teams) was to envision the most competitive hypothetical division possible (given the max size of WAKA division is 16). The factors I use to rank teams are:

Major factors:
(1) Overall record
(2) Tournament strength-of-schedule (also including W-L-T, quality wins, finish, etc.)
(3) Division strength-of-schedule
(4) Recent trends

Minor factors:
(5) Scouting observations (in person or from Poll sources)
(6) Long-term historical performance

I appreciate that you put this together... What are the criteria if you don't mind? It would help me (and us) to understand why this ranking means so much.

No way you used these factors to get these rankings...lets just call it as it is, these rankings are purely based on FC performance. Basing rankings on a one tournament performance is ridiculous. This is kickball, most similar to baseball, there is a reason why mlb baseball plays a series of games to determine their winner and the better team...one game proves nothing. Any of the top teams can beat each other on any given day...but over the long run the best/better teams will win much more than they will lose. The greatest factor in these rankings should have been the long run, the complete year...more specifically the complete year of tournaments. If losing three games the entire tournament year, Frosty Balls in extra innings, The Others 2-1 in FC, and ONS* (a combination of two talented FL teams) gets MiR to be the #7 ranked team...I'm dumbfounded.

If you are including regular season...I'm even more amazed. While I will give the nod to FL Beach as having the best overall teams right now, VA Shore plays a much tougher schedule because we don't divide up the teams into divisions. Also, tournament SOS is too subjective. You have to play and beat who is in front of you...you can't control who you play...but by these rankings MiR would also have hardest tournament SOS, right? being that we played The Others in every tournament?

I hope these rankings were a joke.

[Tweasy H Whoa]

Maybe it is just me but the power poll is Fall 2009 version not the year 2009 version. Indicating the ranking of the teams current Fall outcomes.

Maybe you should ask Shane to do a Year 2009 version!

[Paniky 69er]

I'm not sure it's possible to make a more disagreeable poll without it being a joke. The fact that the #1 has a winning head-to-head record against only four teams on the Power Poll is astonishing.

[Tweasy H Whoa]

I'm not sure it's possible to make a more disagreeable poll without it being a joke. The fact that the #1 has a winning head-to-head record against only four teams on the Power Poll is astonishing.

The main goal of the Others was to polish their team to win the FC. In which they used the Open tourneys to do so and look what happened, they accomplished their goal.

Last time I checked, they won the tourney in 2009 with the most talent present.

Remember no Circuit last year. So this year is going to be different how people use the Open tourneys.

[FishEsq]

I've not had much interaction with Sage as of yet. But due to this poll, I like him much more. He took into account trends, is aware of talent and used information on the upcoming season (and not games 2 years ago) to make this poll. Everyone keeps saying that a team in the top 8 can beat any other team in the top, so this is where he decided those top 8 should be ranked.

[flades]

Last time I checked, they won the tourney in 2009 with the most talent present.

.

amen. good job shane

[machinegunkelly]

The ranking doesn't mean so much. I have always contended, since I have put this Poll out, that the discussion the Poll promotes is far more important than the actual numbers assigned to each team. The Poll is about sparking serious, thoughtful discussion on the growth of competitive kickball. The rankings are a starting point for that, and no more.

Roughly speaking, the original idea of the Poll (which started at 16 teams) was to envision the most competitive hypothetical division possible (given the max size of WAKA division is 16). The factors I use to rank teams are:

Major factors:
(1) Overall record
(2) Tournament strength-of-schedule (also including W-L-T, quality wins, finish, etc.)
(3) Division strength-of-schedule
(4) Recent trends

Minor factors:
(5) Scouting observations (in person or from Poll sources)
(6) Long-term historical performance

I appreciate that you put this together... What are the criteria if you don't mind? It would help me (and us) to understand why this ranking means so much.

No way you used these factors to get these rankings...lets just call it as it is, these rankings are purely based on FC performance. Basing rankings on a one tournament performance is ridiculous. This is kickball, most similar to baseball, there is a reason why mlb baseball plays a series of games to determine their winner and the better team...one game proves nothing. Any of the top teams can beat each other on any given day...but over the long run the best/better teams will win much more than they will lose. The greatest factor in these rankings should have been the long run, the complete year...more specifically the complete year of tournaments. If losing three games the entire tournament year, Frosty Balls in extra innings, The Others 2-1 in FC, and ONS* (a combination of two talented FL teams) gets MiR to be the #7 ranked team...I'm dumbfounded.

If you are including regular season...I'm even more amazed. While I will give the nod to FL Beach as having the best overall teams right now, VA Shore plays a much tougher schedule because we don't divide up the teams into divisions. Also, tournament SOS is too subjective. You have to play and beat who is in front of you...you can't control who you play...but by these rankings MiR would also have hardest tournament SOS, right? being that we played The Others in every tournament?

I hope these rankings were a joke.

i couldnt agree more

[machinegunkelly]

where is MIH on these ranking?.....MIH resume is far superior to Balls Deep, JKI...MIIH should be #2!

[CONNOR]

Salty on this thread MK. There is no MIH, other than Bedrock, so why would they be on here? The "new" Meatballs are basically MIH anyway.

I have a feeling you are upset about the ranking of the Meatballs? Win Beach or SFKO and all will be set straight, because the "Meatballs" haven't won any titles in a while.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Having actually played against 9 of the top 12 teams (mir,BCB cali i never played) in the past year i would not have ranked them this way. But thanks for putting time and effort in to giving us your opinion Shane. This is how i would have ranked the top 12 taking out the 4 Florida teams .My rankings are based on how I thought they played as a team.Not all based on Wins/Loses because i believe some teams are better than others based on from what i saw and played against. For example, I think every team on this list is better than BCB. So just because BCB made it to the final in Vegas i would not make them a top 5 team . I also factor in who they play against locally and how many big games a year they have.



1. Make It Rain VA Shore -Winner of the 2nd toughest division in the country . Won TKO ,Elite 8 in dc ( lost to winner) , FC lost to The Others (winner)

2. Dumpster Fire - Won the NYC tournament. Lost in Vegas to The Others (winners) . Got knocked out of DC by MIH (finalist).Kings of New York and consistently plays every team tough.

3. Frosty Balls-Because they are the Frosty that's why! They had a bad day in Vegas. They are still one of if not the best

4 .The Others DC Liberty- FC Champs. Knocked out of Dc in sweet 16. Not sure how tough their division is but from what i hear Beach and Shore are tougher

5. Ballers and Shot Callers-This team could be good if they can get away from making mistakes that cost them .

6. Lock It Up NY Star, NY - A team full of tournament legends that played on HW.They are "adjusting to 2 bounce". This team will make a final 4 in 2010 on the tournament scene

7 .Tiki Titans VA Shore -Coming out of a strong division helps them win games in tournament. But they cant hang with the top 10

8 Best Coast Ballers CA -Watch the video of the FC final .Not impressed by this team at all .


In Florida i would say JKI is the king right now. They hold the Beach title and that all that matters down here. MB,BD,RR or Jki has not won a national tournament ever.If one of them did i would put them on top. JKI will be a tough team for everyone to beat if they jump on the tourney scene.

[machinegunkelly]

Salty on this thread MK. There is no MIH, other than Bedrock, so why would they be on here? The "new" Meatballs are basically MIH anyway.

I have a feeling you are upset about the ranking of the Meatballs? Win Beach or SFKO and all will be set straight, because the "Meatballs" haven't won any titles in a while.

no i think MIR n frosty should be ranked ahead of us.....ok so we havnt won anything in a while...but have still won more than BD n RR.....all i am saying is if JKI is ranked 3...why cause they won beach?...ok well MIH won bedrock....albeit not a great league....but we lost in DC final....which is more than JKI, RR, balls deep....there r way to many flaws in this poll to considered legit......trick bunnies are #16 so your point about MIH not being around is mute....

[CONNOR]

no i think MIR n frosty should be ranked ahead of us.....ok so we havnt won anything in a while...but have still won more than BD n RR.....all i am saying is if JKI is ranked 3...why cause they won beach?...ok well MIH won bedrock....albeit not a great league....but we lost in DC final....which is more than JKI, RR, balls deep....there r way to many flaws in this poll to considered legit......trick bunnies are #16 so your point about MIH not being around is mute....

1.) I agree with you on the number of Championships in SoFla. Only JKI, BD and MB have won either Riptide or Beach.

2.) JKI has never played in a tournament as JKI, so SFKO will be a good indicator. Again, tough for them to beat several top teams in a row with a large lineup, but their defense will keep them in any game. Neither JKI, RR or BD played in DC. Their respective combination, ONS, beat MIH.

3.) TB's being ranked and MIH not is moot because neither team really exists and Shane made it clear the TB's ranking was sort of a parting gift for a disbanded franchise.
I'm still not sure why MIH is being brought up if you're on the Meatballs? Maybe I'm missing something? *fish, fish*

4.) Out of curiosity, how many Riptide or Beach titles has MB won? BD has only one, Riptide, but is by far the newest team on the scene as a collective group of all the top four and one that I think has probably the greatest potential for improvement. That factor is part of the reason I have committed to playing with them. Also, i'm not sure exactly how BD did in SFKO last year, but the only tournament I have played with them they did pretty good *see FC '09*...

Rankings are extremely subjective. Look at how much the college football rankings change on a weekly basis and our rankings are semi-annual. It will be interesting to see how the upcoming Beach league develops because all four top teams have improved from any of their previous version.

[Dematas]

no i think MIR n frosty should be ranked ahead of us.....ok so we havnt won anything in a while...but have still won more than BD n RR.....all i am saying is if JKI is ranked 3...why cause they won beach?...ok well MIH won bedrock....albeit not a great league....but we lost in DC final....which is more than JKI, RR, balls deep....there r way to many flaws in this poll to considered legit......trick bunnies are #16 so your point about MIH not being around is mute....

1.) I agree with you on the number of Championships in SoFla. Only JKI, BD and MB have won either Riptide or Beach.

2.) JKI has never played in a tournament as JKI, so SFKO will be a good indicator. Again, tough for them to beat several top teams in a row with a large lineup, but their defense will keep them in any game. Neither JKI, RR or BD played in DC. Their respective combination, ONS, beat MIH.

3.) TB's being ranked and MIH not is moot because neither team really exists and Shane made it clear the TB's ranking was sort of a parting gift for a disbanded franchise.
I'm still not sure why MIH is being brought up if you're on the Meatballs? Maybe I'm missing something? *fish, fish*

4.) Out of curiosity, how many Riptide or Beach titles has MB won? BD has only one, Riptide, but is by far the newest team on the scene as a collective group of all the top four and one that I think has probably the greatest potential for improvement. That factor is part of the reason I have committed to playing with them. Also, i'm not sure exactly how BD did in SFKO last year, but the only tournament I have played with them they did pretty good *see FC '09*...

Rankings are extremely subjective. Look at how much the college football rankings change on a weekly basis and our rankings are semi-annual. It will be interesting to see how the upcoming Beach league develops because all four top teams have improved from any of their previous version.

So we need a poll every week and/or a poll after each tourney to stay more current and accurate on the pulse of competitive kickball teams around the country?

[CONNOR]

So we need a poll every week and/or a poll after each tourney to stay more current and accurate on the pulse of competitive kickball teams around the country?

No way Dematas, that is, unless you want to be in charge of doing it?

It would be interesting to have something on here that shows what each top team has done, say, in the last month. What do you think?

[Paniky 69er]

I tried to put together a committee to do a Power Poll every 2-3 months, but I was told by some that Shane would be doing a Power Poll on a more regular basis. After seeing what the latest installment meant, I think I'm going to revisit the Power Poll committee.

[Festa]

I tried to put together a committee to do a Power Poll every 2-3 months, but I was told by some that Shane would be doing a Power Poll on a more regular basis. After seeing what the latest installment meant, I think I'm going to revisit the Power Poll committee.

While fixing some things before putting the latest fan poll up, I did stumble upon the unfinished code that i was going to use to create the "Panel of Experts."

[Dematas]

I tried to put together a committee to do a Power Poll every 2-3 months, but I was told by some that Shane would be doing a Power Poll on a more regular basis. After seeing what the latest installment meant, I think I'm going to revisit the Power Poll committee.

How about something like one person we all trust from each region that has a top ten team in it report scores from that division and rank the top teams. I know I always put it on the same people, but I would ask Scorekeeper in VA Beach, Shane in NYC, Timberwolf in FL Beach, and Admin in DC, not sure about other regions. I feel like we all believe that there are about 8-12 teams around the country that are elite and can play each other and the winner could vary each day for the most part. I hope that the circuit and the rankings/points will make it more clear who is the most consistent tourney team cause I believe that is what is most important, not a team who wins just one tourney with whatever team they choose to bring. If that team chooses to bring whatever team and they win multiple tourneys then I would think we would acknowledge they are the most consistent team. Seems like it is the one hit wonders that people have issue with.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

no i think MIR n frosty should be ranked ahead of us.....ok so we havnt won anything in a while...but have still won more than BD n RR.....all i am saying is if JKI is ranked 3...why cause they won beach?...ok well MIH won bedrock....albeit not a great league....but we lost in DC final....which is more than JKI, RR, balls deep....there r way to many flaws in this poll to considered legit......trick bunnies are #16 so your point about MIH not being around is mute....

1.) I agree with you on the number of Championships in SoFla. Only JKI, BD and MB have won either Riptide or Beach.

2.) JKI has never played in a tournament as JKI, so SFKO will be a good indicator. Again, tough for them to beat several top teams in a row with a large lineup, but their defense will keep them in any game. Neither JKI, RR or BD played in DC. Their respective combination, ONS, beat MIH.

3.) TB's being ranked and MIH not is moot because neither team really exists and Shane made it clear the TB's ranking was sort of a parting gift for a disbanded franchise.
I'm still not sure why MIH is being brought up if you're on the Meatballs? Maybe I'm missing something? *fish, fish*

4.) Out of curiosity, how many Riptide or Beach titles has MB won? BD has only one, Riptide, but is by far the newest team on the scene as a collective group of all the top four and one that I think has probably the greatest potential for improvement. That factor is part of the reason I have committed to playing with them. Also, i'm not sure exactly how BD did in SFKO last year, but the only tournament I have played with them they did pretty good *see FC '09*...

Rankings are extremely subjective. Look at how much the college football rankings change on a weekly basis and our rankings are semi-annual. It will be interesting to see how the upcoming Beach league develops because all four top teams have improved from any of their previous version.

I think MK is mentioning MIH for these reasons.

If you are just ranking teams on their recent performance then MIH is a team from this past summer
Just pretend you didnt know who was on the team and was just going to rank them off of winning a division (cupcake division) and making it to the final in DC.
How would Shane rank them?
MK can care less if MIH is on here. I think he is just trying to prove a point.

[Sleeveless]

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Done and done.

Great job Shane. You and the BCS must have been using Cray supercomputers to calculate all the variables.