Clarification from Fully Loaded

[PittsBurgheR]

I think using team skittles as an example is scewing all of your heads up. Team skittles was playing in VBKO because they were a local team.

Not exactly true. While I captained it as a local and had some of my local friends on the team we had players travel from Arizona, DC, Connecticut and Minnesota (although he was coming to town anyway). So yeah, we had people fly here and stay in hotels just like a "real" team.

I think every tournament committee understands what type of team that an AZ,CT and so mix will be. (it means beers at 7 am).

Kimdude,

Until just now i did not realize the you played PANIK AND FL in the morning. You did kind of get screwed. You should have only played 1 of them.

I find it funny, that though we had a tough pool schedule, you didn't hear anyone bitching about it. And just because we went to play in a few games, we still weren't going to just go, I wouldn't spend the money if I didnt think we couldn't spoil someone's day. I do agree, we should have only played either PA or FL but not both. Meh. We did what we could, and we'll just keep getting better every tournament we play. Whether collectively or as free agents.

[Trey it Up]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

[krabbas]

There have to be a bunch of Socialists on this Message Board. I've never heard so many people argue that hard work, dedication, and a superior skill set should not afford you any advantages.

I think there are a lot of Casteists on this board who want to impose barriers on lower classes to prevent them from moving up!

None of these top teams were born "rich". We worked hard,and moved in to the upper class by earning it.

You are so brain washed by waka its scary.

Haha. Ok... It was a joke. But you can't deny that putting Team Skittles against the 1 and 2 seeds in a tournament does significantly reduce their odds of success (you said it yourself that they kind of got screwed). But that's not the only impact. When they sign up for the next tourney, they're "poor" performance in VBKO is going to impact them in the rankings for that tournament and more than likely they are going to get another tough draw (if the even organizer does the schedule the same way). So in essence, you are putting more obstacles in the path up the ladder.

I know you're going to say, well they can work harder, build a better team, etc, etc... Or that because they are a local or a mashup team that they don't care, so it shouldn't matter... but it still doesn't make it fair to have it happen in that manner. It CAN be done better.

[krabbas]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Who are you addressing this to?

[Trey it Up]

I agree that having to play the top two seeds is not fair for any team, and if anybody has a legitimate gripe that they were put into the "pool of death" it was Team Skittles who had to play the three best teams in the tournament. Whining about having to play the 3, 4, 5, and 10 seeds as the 6 seed is a little pathetic to me.

[McNugget]

I agree that having to play the top two seeds is not fair for any team, and if anybody has a legitimate gripe that they were put into the "pool of death" it was Team Skittles who had to play the three best teams in the tournament. Whining about having to play the 3, 4, 5, and 10 seeds as the 6 seed is a little pathetic to me.

And the only game Skittles played that wasn't against one of the three best teams ended in a tie. Not too shabby for a last ranked team of randoms. Just saying.

[Trey it Up]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Who are you addressing this to?

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

[This part is directed straight to Brent] I think despite the fact that EC lost all four games, they proved that they are a competitive team and their seeding will reflect that in the next tournament they attend. But it takes more than being competitive in losses if you want to move into the tier of pools where advancing out of Pool Play becomes expected. I know for a fact that EC hasn't done what it takes to earn that yet. Practice. Recruit. Win.

[kim dude]

I agree that having to play the top two seeds is not fair for any team, and if anybody has a legitimate gripe that they were put into the "pool of death" it was Team Skittles who had to play the three best teams in the tournament. Whining about having to play the 3, 4, 5, and 10 seeds as the 6 seed is a little pathetic to me.

JFK (or whatever Fried's team was called) had the same pool as we did as the 2nd to last seed, so they could probably bitch too. Like I said though, we're not really bitching about the actual having to do it, rather the fact that there seems no legitimate reason for it (if that makes any sense). I think we learned a lot playing Flying V and FL. Not so much playing you guys coz when the wind is at PAs back and you're putting the balls on another field we're really not gonna learn anything new.

[-APBT-]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Funny you say that, because that was a WAKA tournament. KA went in to that tournament ranked dead last because we didn't have a divisional tournament in time for the cut off due to three weeks of solid bad weather and we were undefeated for 4 years prior to it! No bias, no complaint, we played on.

BTW, I don't believe in politics, I believe in the soldiers that wage war on the front lines. I am defending a team that is not my own for the betterment of the league. My team has literally not a single dog in this fight from my point of view. iB is on the rise and will be knocking on everyone's door soon enough.

[Return of Ctiger]

According to everyone else there is oh so much parity between 3-10 that no matter who they played it wouldn't have made a difference. All you people whining and complaining, or in the case of krabbas not complaining (although just going on a 4 day rant that seems an awful lot like complaining) are a bunch of hypocrites. It's over, move on, Atlanta is in 3 weeks, dc isn't long after that. Stop crying and start preparing to actually do something at a tournament

[krabbas]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Who are you addressing this to?

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

[This part is directed straight to Brent] I think despite the fact that EC lost all four games, they proved that they are a competitive team and their seeding will reflect that in the next tournament they attend. But it takes more than being competitive in losses if you want to move into the tier of pools where advancing out of Pool Play becomes expected. I know for a fact that EC hasn't done what it takes to earn that yet. Practice. Recruit. Win.

No doubt. I agree completely. And I would be the first to tell you that EC hasn't done what it takes to earn that yet. Nothing that i've posted has really been in relation to EC... More about the process in general in which seeding is assigned.

Truth be told, I looked at our draw and I felt like it was favorable. Between TI2, BiB, Sitch, and NYSH, I honestly didn't see a game that wasn't winnable for us. Of course, we didn't make it happen, but that is what it is. I certainly didn't think that our schedule or seeding was not fair.

[krabbas]

I agree that having to play the top two seeds is not fair for any team, and if anybody has a legitimate gripe that they were put into the "pool of death" it was Team Skittles who had to play the three best teams in the tournament. Whining about having to play the 3, 4, 5, and 10 seeds as the 6 seed is a little pathetic to me.

JFK (or whatever Fried's team was called) had the same pool as we did as the 2nd to last seed, so they could probably bitch too. Like I said though, we're not really bitching about the actual having to do it, rather the fact that there seems no legitimate reason for it (if that makes any sense). I think we learned a lot playing Flying V and FL. Not so much playing you guys coz when the wind is at PAs back and you're putting the balls on another field we're really not gonna learn anything new.

That makes perfect sense, Kim.

[Trey it Up]

Aaron, don't get me started on WAKA's way of seeding. It's beyond dumb.

We played the #2 (Gonzo), #4 (AA-All-Stars), and I believe #6 (Friends with Benefits) teams in the country in our pool, before moving on to play #5 Tiki and eventually #1 KA. We certainly weren't handed anything (other than an ass-kicking).

Bottom line is, we were new. Nobody knew who we were. We eventually made a name for ourselves and worked our way up the rankings. It didn't happen overnight, and nobody took pity on us for being new (nor should they have).

*All rankings according to Shane's Power Poll at the time

[Catch-22]

I agree that having to play the top two seeds is not fair for any team, and if anybody has a legitimate gripe that they were put into the "pool of death" it was Team Skittles who had to play the three best teams in the tournament. Whining about having to play the 3, 4, 5, and 10 seeds as the 6 seed is a little pathetic to me.

Haha, so I guess that answers your question, Krabbas. I think what's pathetic is how Trey talks about the importance of seeding and how those teams earned their right to an easier pool play schedule, but then in the next breath says that teams seeded #3, #4, #5, and #6 are complaining that they all had to play each other.

Trey likes facts, so here's some. The #6 seed had the exact same schedule as the #12 seed. One of those two teams got a schedule that did not reflect their ranking accurately. Both teams played the #3, #4, #5, and #10 seeds.

What the hell was the point/benefit of being the #6 seed? Why even have seeds beyond #1 and #2 if the entire tourney is going to be about region distribution after making sure the #1 and #2 get an easy morning?

For example, PA played the #14, #13, #11, and #8. Of course, you loved pool play.

So according to Trey's logic, the #1 getting to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in pool play is PA's justly earned schedule. However, the #6 playing the #3, #4, and #5 is because the #6 hasn't earned anything. That makes no sense.

As I've said multiple times in this forum, I'm all for seedings. But then make a schedule that reflects those seedings. You can't have it both ways. #1 should have the easiest schedule. The #6 should have the sixth easiest. And so on. You have to follow through with seedings if you're going to use them.

[Jared It Up!]

new teams shouldn't expect to not be in a pool with a top 2 team. if they play some solid ball, then they will get more respect at the next tournament. I think most teams go into tournaments knowing this.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

new teams shouldn't expect to not be in a pool with a top 2 team. if they play some solid ball, then they will get more respect at the next tournament. I think most teams go into tournaments knowing this.

There are just current players taking out their frustration on seedings due to their teams bad performance. Its ridiculous and i feel like we are talking to kids. I would rather play in a tournament with 10 teams that understand how it works and that dont complain . As opposed to playing with more teams and having a half dozen of them bitch that the system is wrong. I would tell them if you dont like it then dont fucking play (but in a more professional way). Or go run your own tournament and do it however you want.

[Trey it Up]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

[JellyDogg]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

[2_easy]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

[Trey it Up]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

And the semis and the finals?

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

[-APBT-]

Aaron, don't get me started on WAKA's way of seeding. It's beyond dumb.

We played the #2 (Gonzo), #4 (AA-All-Stars), and I believe #6 (Friends with Benefits) teams in the country in our pool, before moving on to play #5 Tiki and eventually #1 KA. We certainly weren't handed anything (other than an ass-kicking).

Bottom line is, we were new. Nobody knew who we were. We eventually made a name for ourselves and worked our way up the rankings. It didn't happen overnight, and nobody took pity on us for being new (nor should they have).

*All rankings according to Shane's Power Poll at the time

Trey, did you actually read my post? It was a WAKA regional tournament in which we were ranked dead last. Gonzo was ranked #1 in that tourney. Shane's rankings had nothing to do with it.

[Catch-22]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

So let me get this straight. You think the #1 seed has earned an easy schedule? Right? But then you think a #6 seed hasn't earned anything whatsoever? Cus that's what it sounds like you're saying. In which case, why even seed teams past #1 or #2?

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

You all may say that playing top teams are going to scare bad teams away. Then why are you all still here then?! Has it scared you away? NO!

I think what will scare potential new teams away is the logic that some of you have when it comes to seedings. Ask the pirate. He will tell you that some of your thoughts are ridiculous.

[FlyingV]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

Any pool, that doesn't include Meatballs, would provide 3 free wins for Panik... just sayin'

[dp3]

It's extra funny seeing and understanding both sides, but also seeing the giant imaginary barrier between them halting any and all effective communication. Carry on!

[krabbas]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

Agree with that. I think the answer, which has been mentioned is the world cup draw. Rank the top teams and randomly draw the remainder.

Because Catch, whether you guys want to dismiss him as just whining or not, does make a good point. If the top teams deserve an easier schedule than the teams ranked below them, than the 6 seed deserves an easier schedule than the teams below them as well because (in theory) they "earned" it (at least in the organizer's mind).

So, to Trey's point, iB didn't win a game all day, so it proved they didn't deserve to have a better schedule than EC. But that was not by design. I'm sure Wilkinson doesn't have clairvoyant powers to look into the future and predict that (pretty sure at least), so we assume that they gave iB the #6 seed because they really felt like iB was the 6th best team.

All in all, though, I agree. Teams control to a certain extent their rankings. If you beat people (or in Flying V's case lose close games to PA) than you will earn higher seeds at future tourneys.

[Sleeveless]

A positive comment about Gonzo! Perhaps the Rapture really did happen over the weekend!

Aaron, don't get me started on WAKA's way of seeding. It's beyond dumb.

We played the #2 (Gonzo), #4 (AA-All-Stars), and I believe #6 (Friends with Benefits) teams in the country in our pool, before moving on to play #5 Tiki and eventually #1 KA. We certainly weren't handed anything (other than an ass-kicking).

Bottom line is, we were new. Nobody knew who we were. We eventually made a name for ourselves and worked our way up the rankings. It didn't happen overnight, and nobody took pity on us for being new (nor should they have).

*All rankings according to Shane's Power Poll at the time

[krabbas]

It's extra funny seeing and understanding both sides, but also seeing the giant imaginary barrier between them halting any and all effective communication. Carry on!

True.

[Catch-22]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

Any pool, that doesn't include Meatballs, would provide 3 free wins for Panik... just sayin'

Not if they were playing the #3, #4, #5 seeds in a row. PA lost to LIU in pool play last year in NYC. Put PA in a pool of LIU, iB, and Balls Deeper, and they don't come out of it 3-0.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

So let me get this straight. You think the #1 seed has earned an easy schedule? Right? But then you think a #6 seed hasn't earned anything whatsoever? Cus that's what it sounds like you're saying. In which case, why even seed teams past #1 or #2?

Dude, If there are only 14 teams in the tourney then of course #6 seed is gonna have a tough morning playing teams of equal quality. But when there are 30 teams # 6's morning will probably be just as easy as #1's. And i bet in that case #6 wont bitch at all.

If you dont like the size of the event then just dont go. It only takes common sense to know that if you are mid pack (#6 -10) in a small tourney then you are going to be playing a lot of tough games but you will be able to avoid #1 and #2 in the morning because you EARNED it . If you are (6-10) in a large tourney you will have an easy moning that you EARNED.

What the eff is the problem here? hahaha

[krabbas]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

Any pool, that doesn't include Meatballs, would provide 3 free wins for Panik... just sayin'

Not if they were playing the #3, #4, #5 seeds in a row. PA lost to LIU in pool play last year in NYC. Put PA in a pool of LIU, iB, and Balls Deeper, and they don't come out of it 3-0.

Well, given that they did just go an entire tournament without even giving up a single run, I probably would still bet that they sweep the pool. Haha.

[krabbas]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

So let me get this straight. You think the #1 seed has earned an easy schedule? Right? But then you think a #6 seed hasn't earned anything whatsoever? Cus that's what it sounds like you're saying. In which case, why even seed teams past #1 or #2?

Dude, If there are only 14 teams in the tourney then of course #6 seed is gonna have a tough morning playing teams of equal quality. But when there are 30 teams # 6's morning will probably be just as easy as #1's. And i bet in that case #6 wont bitch at all.

If you dont like the size of the event then just dont go. It only takes common sense to know that if you are mid pack (#6 -10) in a small tourney then you are going to be playing a lot of tough games but you will be able to avoid #1 and #2 in the morning because you EARNED it . If you are (6-10) in a large tourney you will have an easy moning that you EARNED.

What the eff is the problem here? hahaha

There really were no "easy" mornings for any team in this tournament.

[2_easy]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds. But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return. A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

[FlyingV]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Trey hit's the nail on the head with this. All the teams you mentioned were before my time but it either seems like they are gone OR you have surpassed them. How did this happen? Preparation, practice, recruiting or for people who still don't understand- GOOD OLE' FASHIONED HARD WORK. That's the problem with the generation today- they all want to be included, they all want to be patted on the back and they all want it GIVEN to them.

I was at my brothers 8th grade awards ceremony a few years back and guess how many kids left that auditorium without an award... ZERO. What does that teach anyone? It says all you have to do is show up and you'll be rewarded with something? F*CK that... not everything is always going to be fair (Pool's of Death) but you get over it and do better next time. If you don't improve then you'll all be back here in 3 weeks complaining about he same crap.

How do you think America became the greatest nation of all? We worked hard, challenged each other and came up with new innovations that set us apart from the rest. I don't know if it's the fact the Memorial Day this weekend or I just went off on my soap box but I'm sorry- I wasn't brought up to complain, I was taught if you're not the best, you find a way to be the best.

And I'm done...

[krabbas]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Trey hit's the nail on the head with this. All the teams you mentioned were before my time but it either seems like they are gone OR you have surpassed them. How did this happen? Preparation, practice, recruiting or for people who still don't understand- GOOD OLE' FASHIONED HARD WORK. That's the problem with the generation today- they all want to be included, they all want to be patted on the back and they all want it GIVEN to them.

I was at my brothers 8th grade awards ceremony a few years back and guess how many kids left that auditorium without an award... ZERO. What does that teach anyone? It says all you have to do is show up and you'll be rewarded with something? F*CK that... not everything is always going to be fair (Pool's of Death) but you get over it and do better next time. If you don't improve then you'll all be back here in 3 weeks complaining about he same crap.

How do you think America became the greatest nation of all? We worked hard, challenged each other and came up with new innovations that set us apart from the rest. I don't know if it's the fact the Memorial Day this weekend or I just went off on my soap box but I'm sorry- I wasn't brought up to complain, I was taught if you're not the best, you find a way to be the best.

And I'm done...

Help me understand who this is addressed to and why you feel that this individual or person disagrees with anything you said?

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds. But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return. A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

No thats not the case at all buddy. Panik and The meatballs are built for going 7 straight hard games in a row if needed. The argument here is with ranking the mid-bottom. You have to remember we are playing all the tough teams as well in the afternoon in a due or die situation when everyone else is drinking and relaxing.

[Catch-22]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

So let me get this straight. You think the #1 seed has earned an easy schedule? Right? But then you think a #6 seed hasn't earned anything whatsoever? Cus that's what it sounds like you're saying. In which case, why even seed teams past #1 or #2?

Dude, If there are only 14 teams in the tourney then of course #6 seed is gonna have a tough morning playing teams of equal quality. But when there are 30 teams # 6's morning will probably be just as easy as #1's. And i bet in that case #6 wont bitch at all.

If you dont like the size of the event then just dont go. It only takes common sense to know that if you are mid pack (#6 -10) in a small tourney then you are going to be playing a lot of tough games but you will be able to avoid #1 and #2 in the morning because you EARNED it . If you are (6-10) in a large tourney you will have an easy moning that you EARNED.

What the eff is the problem here? hahaha

Pointing out a flaw in the entire way a tournament's schedule is set up is not bitching...it's pointing out a necessity that needs fixing. MB and PA are adamantly defending the fact seeded teams earned their right to an easy schedule in pool play. Well that has to ring true for all the teams there. The #6 having the same schedule as the #12 is a FAIL. If the #1 and the #7 had the same schedule, someone had the wrong schedule, right? #6 to #12 is the same difference. Just because the teams are seeded in the middle doesn't mean you can blow off the entire idea of scheduling based on seeds for those teams.

I'm sure this won't be a problem anymore. By Trey's logic, iB should drop in the rankings. We'll get seeded #10 or #11 and have an easier schedule than we would have at #6/12 anyways. Problem solved

[FlyingV]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

Any pool, that doesn't include Meatballs, would provide 3 free wins for Panik... just sayin'

Not if they were playing the #3, #4, #5 seeds in a row. PA lost to LIU in pool play last year in NYC. Put PA in a pool of LIU, iB, and Balls Deeper, and they don't come out of it 3-0.

I believe they do... the team they played with this weekend was 10x's better than the one at SFKO and even that squad was different than the one a year ago. You can't use those results to gauge anything, at some point they become irrelevant. Those 3 games they alternate Dan and JC and I guarantee they still come out 3-0.