Clarification from Fully Loaded

[FlyingV]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Trey hit's the nail on the head with this. All the teams you mentioned were before my time but it either seems like they are gone OR you have surpassed them. How did this happen? Preparation, practice, recruiting or for people who still don't understand- GOOD OLE' FASHIONED HARD WORK. That's the problem with the generation today- they all want to be included, they all want to be patted on the back and they all want it GIVEN to them.

I was at my brothers 8th grade awards ceremony a few years back and guess how many kids left that auditorium without an award... ZERO. What does that teach anyone? It says all you have to do is show up and you'll be rewarded with something? F*CK that... not everything is always going to be fair (Pool's of Death) but you get over it and do better next time. If you don't improve then you'll all be back here in 3 weeks complaining about he same crap.

How do you think America became the greatest nation of all? We worked hard, challenged each other and came up with new innovations that set us apart from the rest. I don't know if it's the fact the Memorial Day this weekend or I just went off on my soap box but I'm sorry- I wasn't brought up to complain, I was taught if you're not the best, you find a way to be the best.

And I'm done...

Help me understand who this is addressed to and why you feel that this individual or person disagrees with anything you said?

Not addressed to anyone in particular...

I went off on a tangent- I feel American.

[Lost_Sage]

Didn't read my last post, did you ... over the 2010 Circuit season, captains overwhelmingly listed random draw as their least favorite way to construct pools ...

Random draw is more preferable in two scenarios:
- Large field of unknowns
- Small, balanced field (< 10 teams)

The concerns you're actually bringing up are easily solved by:
- Geographic distribution restrictions (already used in DC, used to smaller extent in other tournies)
- Repeat matchup restrictions (an EM may change his/her pool construction to force a re-draw if it, for example, matches up 2 teams in pool play who were also in the same pool at last event/last X events - no one has done this yet, but they are free to do so)

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds. But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return. A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

[dp3]

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds.

I don't think it's that they don't want to, or aren't confident doing so, just that they shouldn't HAVE to. That's the way tournaments work. It's sports.

But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return.

If a team doesn't return because they got placed with PA or MB in their first tournament and got smoked, then they weren't the kind of team that will perpetuate the Circuit so it doesn't really matter.

A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

A random draw would nullify rankings completely. Competitive sports don't work this way.

[Catch-22]

Everybody. If you're [read:anybody] complaining that you had to play tough teams, and you were forced to beat tough teams to advance, you need to follow the above suggestion. Wins aren't handed out for free--they're earned. If you want an easier draw, earn an easier draw.

Pretty sure Panik was handed 3 free wins in pool play. Just sayin'.

Any pool, that doesn't include Meatballs, would provide 3 free wins for Panik... just sayin'

Not if they were playing the #3, #4, #5 seeds in a row. PA lost to LIU in pool play last year in NYC. Put PA in a pool of LIU, iB, and Balls Deeper, and they don't come out of it 3-0.

I believe they do... the team they played with this weekend was 10x's better than the one at SFKO and even that squad was different than the one a year ago. You can't use those results to gauge anything, at some point they become irrelevant. Those 3 games they alternate Dan and JC and I guarantee they still come out 3-0.

Let's make it happen in DC then. I'm game. Flying V can be our 5th.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

To be fair, Flying V was definitely one of the top three teams there (#2 in my opinion). So we played one of the best teams and two of the worst as the best team in the tournament. That sounds like a pretty fair draw for a team that earned the #1 seed by consistently winning.

Your team on the other hand has struggled so far this year and you were given an opportunity to earn victories against teams that were perceived to be only slightly better than you and one team that was perceived to be quite a bit worse than you. You failed to prove your case that you were better than your seed, so now in future tournaments you will be paired against more talented teams as you will be matched up against #1, 2, and 3 seeds instead of middle of the pack teams like in this tournament.

You keep whining that there wasn't a difference between your pool and the #12 pool. Well quite frankly, the results don't show that you deserved a better pool than them as neither team won a game all day. So I guess the organizers got it right after all.

So let me get this straight. You think the #1 seed has earned an easy schedule? Right? But then you think a #6 seed hasn't earned anything whatsoever? Cus that's what it sounds like you're saying. In which case, why even seed teams past #1 or #2?

Dude, If there are only 14 teams in the tourney then of course #6 seed is gonna have a tough morning playing teams of equal quality. But when there are 30 teams # 6's morning will probably be just as easy as #1's. And i bet in that case #6 wont bitch at all.

If you dont like the size of the event then just dont go. It only takes common sense to know that if you are mid pack (#6 -10) in a small tourney then you are going to be playing a lot of tough games but you will be able to avoid #1 and #2 in the morning because you EARNED it . If you are (6-10) in a large tourney you will have an easy moning that you EARNED.

What the eff is the problem here? hahaha

Pointing out a flaw in the entire way a tournament's schedule is set up is not bitching...it's pointing out a necessity that needs fixing. MB and PA are adamantly defending the fact seeded teams earned their right to an easy schedule in pool play. Well that has to ring true for all the teams there. The #6 having the same schedule as the #12 is a FAIL. If the #1 and the #7 had the same schedule, someone had the wrong schedule, right? #6 to #12 is the same difference. Just because the teams are seeded in the middle doesn't mean you can blow off the entire idea of scheduling based on seeds for those teams.

I'm sure this won't be a problem anymore. By Trey's logic, iB should drop in the rankings. We'll get seeded #10 or #11 and have an easier schedule than we would have at #6/12 anyways. Problem solved

I get it. Team skittles got fucked. But having the # of teams and not being able to make pools someone was gonna get the short end. There is nothing you can do about it so move on.

I think VBKO was ran well from what i saw on paper(365). I thought pools would be better with 1 pool having to play a team twice but people bitched. So i think the way they did it was the next most accurate. You cant make everyone happy.

The only problem i saw was how a a 1-03 team was better than a 2-1-1? I dont agree with that

And everyone that didnt make the cut should not have. They did not even win 1 game

[krabbas]

My first tournament we lost 14-0 to KA. We didn't whine that it wasn't fair that we had to play KA. We practiced, we recruited, and we got better. We came into our first tournaments as 8-10 seeds. We were always in tough pools. We proved ourselves over the years. It wasn't a magical leap to the top. I suggest you all do the same.

Trey hit's the nail on the head with this. All the teams you mentioned were before my time but it either seems like they are gone OR you have surpassed them. How did this happen? Preparation, practice, recruiting or for people who still don't understand- GOOD OLE' FASHIONED HARD WORK. That's the problem with the generation today- they all want to be included, they all want to be patted on the back and they all want it GIVEN to them.

I was at my brothers 8th grade awards ceremony a few years back and guess how many kids left that auditorium without an award... ZERO. What does that teach anyone? It says all you have to do is show up and you'll be rewarded with something? F*CK that... not everything is always going to be fair (Pool's of Death) but you get over it and do better next time. If you don't improve then you'll all be back here in 3 weeks complaining about he same crap.

How do you think America became the greatest nation of all? We worked hard, challenged each other and came up with new innovations that set us apart from the rest. I don't know if it's the fact the Memorial Day this weekend or I just went off on my soap box but I'm sorry- I wasn't brought up to complain, I was taught if you're not the best, you find a way to be the best.

And I'm done...

Help me understand who this is addressed to and why you feel that this individual or person disagrees with anything you said?

Not addressed to anyone in particular... Just different views that have been expressed in this thread about unfair seeding to lower teams, easy wins for the top etc. It was post made to the general public, more so agreeing with Trey and his point of view.

Ok, just curious, because you seemed pretty passionate about it. And I wanted to know if there was anyone in specific that message was intended for... I don't know if there is any person on here looking for a free ride or a pat on the back. I didn't get that message from anyone's posts.

[2_easy]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds. But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return. A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

No thats not the case at all buddy. Panik and The meatballs are built for going 7 straight hard games in a row if needed. The argument here is with ranking the mid-bottom. You have to remember we are playing all the tough teams as well in the afternoon in a due or die situation when everyone else is drinking and relaxing.

To many changes on teams to correctly rank them. Random draw. If you are a top team and you get a tough road, prove to us that you deserve to be the champion by winning. If you get an easier road, luck of the draw.

Just saying it might be more fun if mid tier team and/or new team gets lucky and draws an easier pool. If they win one game and/or make it out of pool play, it will be more fun and they might return next year. If they get ass raped by the top 3-4 teams, I can guarantee that the team will most likely not return.

[j22201]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

[Catch-22]

I agree, move on. This wasn't an issue until Trey defended the seeding at this tournament as perfectly fine, implying that it was something we should repeat at another tournament. I think everyone else sees that having two pools and only 14 teams compromises the effectiveness of a seedings system, and that such a set up should be avoided in the future.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds.

I don't think it's that they don't want to, or aren't confident doing so, just that they shouldn't HAVE to. That's the way tournaments work. It's sports.

But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return.

If a team doesn't return because they got placed with PA or MB in their first tournament and got smoked, then they weren't the kind of team that will perpetuate the Circuit so it doesn't really matter.

A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

A random draw would nullify rankings completely. Competitive sports don't work this way.

Thank you pirate! you smell what im cooking.

Dont listen to 2easy, he just does not get it. Everyone knows that Pnik and MB type teams dont want to play against the worst team in the tournament ,listen to them bitch and moan and watch have naked men run around it speedos. We wanna have good games. And as the circuit build there will be 16 or so teams that can all play. When that happens every thing will fall in to place. But for now there are to many waka minded people that dont understand what the circuit is about. I think they should stick to waka. If it means losing a team or 2 then so be it.

[krabbas]

With that said, I'm actually going to go take dp3, Trey, Kevin, and FlyingV's advice and I'm going to leave work and go play kickball and try to get better... See you guys on the boards tomorrow (or tonight if I come home with a buzz and decide to ignore my ladyfriend and get on here)

[Catch-22]

Catch-22, that would be one exciting day of kickball!!!!!

Hell yeah. That'd be similar to my K365 '09 pool of Frosty Balls (08 FC Champs), One Night Stand (09 K365 Champs), and Dematas' NY team.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Random pool play matchups is the way to go.

Lets just pick the players out of a hat as well to determine teams.

I find it funny that it's the top teams that don't want to play the other top teams until late in the elimination rounds. But lets stick all the new teams against teams that will most likely destroy them and make them not return. A random draw can settle seeding disputes and could help generate more teams returning next time.

No thats not the case at all buddy. Panik and The meatballs are built for going 7 straight hard games in a row if needed. The argument here is with ranking the mid-bottom. You have to remember we are playing all the tough teams as well in the afternoon in a due or die situation when everyone else is drinking and relaxing.

To many changes on teams to correctly rank them. Random draw. If you are a top team and you get a tough road, prove to us that you deserve to be the champion by winning. If you get an easier road, luck of the draw.

Just saying it might be more fun if mid tier team and/or new team gets lucky and draws an easier pool. If they win one game and/or make it out of pool play, it will be more fun and they might return next year. If they get ass raped by the top 3-4 teams, I can guarantee that the team will most likely not return.

I cant agree with you. That is just stupid.This does not even concern you. go back to useless drivel

[JohnPWilks]

Does anyone remember this statement?

Since we have multiple Teams from VA, NY, and DC, we separated them by region first and them by league.

Example 1:
Pool A and B
VA Teams = 3 --> VA Southside Teams = 2 / VA Peninsula Teams = 1
Southside Teams will play Peninsula Teams, but not other Southside Teams.

Example 2:
Pool B
2 Teams from NY and 2 Teams from VA Southside.
NY Teams will not play each other and Southside Teams will not play each other.

We tried to keep the DC teams separate, but were unsuccessful.

We will be posting the matchups soon.

[JellyDogg]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

[2_easy]

I don't care who I get stuck playing. You can't upset a top team if you don't play a top team!

My point is that more teams in a tourney = more prize money. This is a business to try and grow competitive kickball, not consolidate / isolate it.

Now using rankings / circuit points for seeding the circuit cup, hell yes.

But trying to rank a bunch of "availables", new teams, addition to current teams is just to tough.

[Jared It Up!]

tweasy, I am in full agreement that the top two teams should not meet in pool play. This is competitive kickball with a little bit of history behind it, so random selection won't work. At the very least, seed the top 8-12 teams and then randomly put the rest in pools. You can't risk two top 4 teams meeting in pool play, especially if its a big tournament.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

Does anyone remember this statement?
[quote=]Since we have multiple Teams from VA, NY, and DC, we separated them by region first and them by league.

Example 1:
Pool A and B
VA Teams = 3 --> VA Southside Teams = 2 / VA Peninsula Teams = 1
Southside Teams will play Peninsula Teams, but not other Southside Teams.

Example 2:
Pool B
2 Teams from NY and 2 Teams from VA Southside.
NY Teams will not play each other and Southside Teams will not play each other.

We tried to keep the DC teams separate, but were unsuccessful.

We will be posting the matchups soon.

[/quote]


You did a great job. It is embarrassing to read some of these statements and opinions of players of the circuit. Do they not get what the circuit is about?

[2_easy]

tweasy, I am in full agreement that the top two teams should not meet in pool play. This is competitive kickball with a little bit of history behind it, so random selection won't work. At the very least, seed the top 8-12 teams and then randomly put the rest in pools. You can't risk two top 4 teams meeting in pool play, especially if its a big tournament.

Why can't you risk 2 top 4 teams meeting in pool play? I don't understand this. If you are a top 4 team, you can still advance with 1 loss. Not going to kill you. But you can stick the lowest seed to face both top seeds. That is just stupid.

If you want to rank the top seeds for each pool, cool, then randomly draw.

I

[Lost_Sage]

14 teams is an awful difficult number to manage logistically. Even more so when you are trying to minimize local v. local team competition given the desire for geographic distribution (very important for VB teams who don't want to play hundreds of dollars just to play against folks they play in their home leagues).

I agree, move on. This wasn't an issue until Trey defended the seeding at this tournament as perfectly fine, implying that it was something we should repeat at another tournament. I think everyone else sees that having two pools and only 14 teams compromises the effectiveness of a seedings system, and that such a set up should be avoided in the future.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

[JohnPWilks]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

tweasy, I am in full agreement that the top two teams should not meet in pool play. This is competitive kickball with a little bit of history behind it, so random selection won't work. At the very least, seed the top 8-12 teams and then randomly put the rest in pools. You can't risk two top 4 teams meeting in pool play, especially if its a big tournament.

Why can't you risk 2 top 4 teams meeting in pool play? I don't understand this. If you are a top 4 team, you can still advance with 1 loss. Not going to kill you. But you can stick the lowest seed to face both top seeds. That is just stupid.

If you want to rank the top seeds for each pool, cool, then randomly draw.

I

Then what the fuck is the point of pool play? are you really this dumb?

If you want that then take McCoys ideas and do double elim

[2_easy]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

I agree in the Circuit cup when you have all teams ranked. But during the year, these tourneys are designed to allow you to earn points to get to the final ranking. So punish the teams that can't play the early tourneys by making their schedule harder for the later tourneys, but cater the early teams with better matchups later in the year. Don't make since to me, since no on should be ranked until the circuit cup.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

Ok done!

and every tournament in the past was done correct. and every tournament in the future will continue to be done the right way and all the cry babies on here opionons mean nothing.

[dp3]

I dropped the pooch

This quote made me Thank you!

[2_easy]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

Ok done!

and every tournament in the past was done correct. and every tournament in the future will continue to be done the right way and all the teams not in the top 10 on here opinion means nothing.

Fixed!

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

I agree in the Circuit cup when you have all teams ranked. But during the year, these tourneys are designed to allow you to earn points to get to the final ranking. So punish the teams that can't play the early tourneys by making their schedule harder for the later tourneys, but cater the early teams with better matchups later in the year. Don't make since to me, since no on should be ranked until the circuit cup.

Hey, if we only played in SFKO and didnt make another event until CC and ended up getting a 10 seed at CC then so be it. It is what it is.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

Ok done!

and every tournament in the past was done correct. and every tournament in the future will continue to be done the right way and all the teams not in the top 10 on here opinion means nothing.

Fixed!

For the most part the 11-16 teams dont travel as much as the top 10 teams. And if they have any common sense they know what they are getting in to being a ot top 10 team yet. And if they are competetive(what the circuit is about) then they will work hard to be better. This is what the circuit needs. There are to many people that talk shit about the circuit but still keep playing. if you dont like it then get the hell out of here. either play and stfu or leave.

[Catch-22]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

How about a 14 team tourney where #1 plays #14, #13, and #11?

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

How about a 14 team tourney where #1 plays #14, #13, and #11?

then something was over looked and done wrong. its in the past and you cant do anything about it.

That tournament could have been done in pools with 1 pool having to play a team twiice but people bitched at that as well.

[JellyDogg]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8



THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

A simple "you're right" would have sufficed, but I'll take it.

[Catch-22]

14 teams is an awful difficult number to manage logistically. Even more so when you are trying to minimize local v. local team competition given the desire for geographic distribution (very important for VB teams who don't want to play hundreds of dollars just to play against folks they play in their home leagues).

I agree, move on. This wasn't an issue until Trey defended the seeding at this tournament as perfectly fine, implying that it was something we should repeat at another tournament. I think everyone else sees that having two pools and only 14 teams compromises the effectiveness of a seedings system, and that such a set up should be avoided in the future.

I think this idea of geographic distribution raises another issue. As Florida and Va Beach continue churning out more and more talented teams, we're going to run into more issues with being able to accommodate seeds and geography. Personally, I'd rather see seeding taken more into account than geography and if I play another team from DC, then so be it.

[2_easy]

Or you can rank teams that have won a tourney and/or made a finals appearance that year (only if they maintain the circuit roster criteria) and the rest of the teams get randomly drawn to a pool.

Final winners get ranked first. You can have a tie breaker formula, something like, heads up record, then competitive of tourney they won (you can add up all the participating circuit teams "current" circuit points that attended the tourney they won and highest total gets a higher seed). Then rank the runner-ups.

[kim dude]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

I'm benching you on Sunday, your girlfriend can pitch in your place.

[MEATBALLKEVIN]

That is pretty much how it always works for the top teams. They earned that

I don't know any team who has earned the right to play 3 of the bottom 4 teams in a tournament. Why not just have them play all 4 bottom seeds, or just tell them to wake up at noon and come out for elimination? How easy a road can one earn?

#16 TEAMS IN A TOURNAMENT .....


#1 PLAYS #16 #9 AND #8




THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. IF #1 PLAYS #16,#15 #14 THEN IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.

A simple "you're right" would have sufficed, but I'll take it.

I more saying that some of these opinions on how a tournament should go are ridiculous.

#1 ALWAYS GETS THE LAST RANKED TEAM AND 2 IN THE MIDDLE IN POOL PLAY. (im not saying middle tier teams. im saying middle seeded depending on tournament size. it may end up being middle tier circuit teams if the event is tiny).

[jdeep]

Wow...there seems to be about 20 different arguments all going in different directions. People who are arguing with each other are even saying the same thing just in different ways. Let me first say that I would not want a completely random draw. I like the world cup style....rank the top 5 or 6 and do random draw for the rest. And it was definitely a lot different for a tourney with 14 teams compared to south florida with 30 teams. But I think what a lot of what im seeing is this: There is clearly a drop off from #1 and #2 from the other teams. There seems to be a lot of concern about making sure the #1 and #2 teams have relatively easy draws in the tournies b/c they earned it, but then after that the #3 and above seeds should just suck it up and take what is given to them. I just think that if there is a large enough tourney (14 teams was NOT large enough), the organizer should make sure the top seeds are not in the same pool, but after that either do it random or try to reward teams #3-#6 just as you would teams #1 and #2. Im going to use an example (using Mkelly's most recent rankings):

At southflorida, PA played: Come on' man (#15); superskinnies (not ranked), Utzzz (not ranked), and ball train (not ranked). Whereas our pool had BD (#6), Situation (#7), NYSH (#8), and Chicken it for ghana (who actually won the pool).

I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that they simply want to avoid that type of favoritism for the top 2 teams. period. random draw is not the answer. but there has to be away to avoid such unbalanced pools.

[NoShoes]

I will admit, I dropped the pooch on scheduling JFK and Team Skittles to play both Panik and Fully Loaded, and I will make sure to not make that mistake again.

BAM, there it is. With this exception, EVERYTHING with pool play was done correctly.

Once this is addressed, I can't see it getting much more fair.

Now, go wash the sand out of your vaginas and get ready for next tourney.

/end thread

[2_easy]

I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that they simply want to avoid that type of favoritism for the top 2 teams. period. random draw is not the answer. but there has to be away to avoid such unbalanced pools.

Agree. They need to stop catering any team! It's an "open" tourney. If teams start believing "certain" teams are being catered, they will lose interest in the circuit. That is my point.

[JellyDogg]

I think this idea of geographic distribution raises another issue. As Florida and Va Beach continue churning out more and more talented teams, we're going to run into more issues with being able to accommodate seeds and geography. Personally, I'd rather see seeding taken more into account than geography and if I play another team from DC, then so be it.

I know some people don't like traveling to play teams they play at home, but it's less of an issue to me after VBKO. I was initially put off by having to play OSC (at team from our home division) in pool play, but most of these tournaments have many of the same teams anyway. I'm just as likely to play NYSH or Panik in as many (or more) meaningful games as I am OSC. It's just whatever now. Line 'em up and let's go.