Mock SFKO Bracket

[sedlak5]

Teams Registered as of 12/29
JKI
Midwest Mushroom Stampers
Relax and Let It Happen
New York Shower Hammers
THE SITUATION
Peninsula Pounders
Stickin' it to Ghana
Bender Rehab
MEATBALLS
Big Ballin' Is Our Hobby
Lock It Up
Rockstar Lifestyle
Gorilla Juice Heads
Fully Loaded
Angry Penguins
Lights Out
Good Will Bunting
Flying V

Pending as of 12/29 - my guess on the actual chances of playing
GOMK (90%) - 3rd best team in Ultra!
Beachslappers (95%) - recruiting well
Ninja Kitties (98%) - Last year's C'Mon Man
OSC - (75%) Always brings a team
Surrender the Booty - North Florida/short drive (50%)
Cobra Kai - Jax - has played the past 3 years (75%)
Panik JV team - You coming down Trey Day????? (30%)
Superdudes - heck of a run in Vegas - came in 2010 made the #17 seed! (30%)

#1 MB
#16 Ninja Kitties

#8 LIU
#9 Flying V

#4 OSC
#13 Situation

#5 Relax
#12 Gorilla Juiceheads

#3 NYSH
#14 MMS

#6 Fully Loaded
#11 Stickin it to Ghana

#7 Cobra Kai
#10 GOMK

#2 JKI
#15 Beachslappers

So I don't know much about some of the newer teams (no one thought Stickin it to Ghana or the two Miami teams would be as good as they were and make it out of pool play last year). If the Panik or IB teams and the Superdudes end up playing, I would say all 3 would crash the round of 16 putting some of the middle of the pack South Florida teams on the bubble.

[Return of Ctiger]

Fully Loaded will not be the 6... probably closer to 10 if they are ranked correctly pre tournament.. if rankings are based on last season then they will have an easy pool and that could be accurate.. if they are not the 1 seed in their pool they will not beat whoever is the 1 seed and will finish around 10-12 for single elim seedings..

[Trey it Up]

Panik won't be coming.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Captain_Relax]

Panik won't be coming.

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No form of Panik will be coming? Saw mccoy had surgery as well as some others, definitely dissappointed that one of, if not the best team in kball won't be coming to this tournament. Because looking at those top 16 the tournament is going to be incredibly competitive.

[jspur317]

No Panik - but OSC will be there rolling deep to make up for them. I'm not sure that we're registered, but we've all already booked our flights.

Off to festivities. Happy New Year everyone.

[J-Hasty]

How are teams seeded at the begining of a new year?

Also what about new teams, teams that have merged etc....

How do you guys figure this out b/c a team like JKI who didn't finish great last year is starting with a whole new roster and should be close to a one seed in their bracket.

Also a team like GOMK how would we get seeded? Does any of our ultra accomplishment come into factor?

[Zak]

I would imagine the seeding process would be the same as last year.

[krabbas]

I would hope it's a random draw or a random "world cup" by region draw.

[Typod]

I thought they seeded based on region

[Zak]

I thought they seeded based on region

In the past they've done a World Cup style draw

[J-Hasty]

Really I always feel like the number one seeds in a bracket are picked and then a random draw from that? Hence why meatballs and panic are never in the same bracket.

Who's gonna get the pool of death cause I have a feeling there will be one!!!

[krabbas]

Really I always feel like the number one seeds in a bracket are picked and then a random draw from that? Hence why meatballs and panic are never in the same bracket.

Who's gonna get the pool of death cause I have a feeling there will be one!!!

Just looking at the list of teams signed up, there will probably be multiple "pools of death". I can't wait for this damn tourney.

[Jersey3bFP]

I'm also trying to figure out how you'd seed a team like JKI over OSC and NYSH. Understandably they have made some great off season moves and will be a force this year in the circuit but you can't seed on speculation. You have to go off of the circuit last year. This being the first tournament of 2012 the seeding should be determined by how teams finished last year.

[admin]

FYI - the seeding will be determined by the event managers. All event managers are given the power to do what they want but we ask that they get feedback from the community/registered teams.

Admin

[jdeep]

I'm also trying to figure out how you'd seed a team like JKI over OSC and NYSH. Understandably they have made some great off season moves and will be a force this year in the circuit but you can't seed on speculation. You have to go off of the circuit last year. This being the first tournament of 2012 the seeding should be determined by how teams finished last year.

I agree mostly with this. I think last year should be the primary factor in seeding for this first of the year tourney. I do think it is fine to consider other factors (mergers, league play, etc.) - but any question marks should be determined by last year. I 100% agree that we (JKI Deep) should not be ranked ahead of OSC and NYSH (and probably others that have earned a higher ranking).

If I remember correctly, South Florida tourney committee gets feedback from the various captains to rank the teams as accurately as possible (no easy task).

[admin]

Really I always feel like the number one seeds in a bracket are picked and then a random draw from that? Hence why meatballs and panic are never in the same bracket.

Who's gonna get the pool of death cause I have a feeling there will be one!!!

Just looking at the list of teams signed up, there will probably be multiple "pools of death". I can't wait for this damn tourney.

It's the Circuit, there should always be multiple pools of death.

Admin

[JellyDogg]

I'm also trying to figure out how you'd seed a team like JKI over OSC and NYSH. Understandably they have made some great off season moves and will be a force this year in the circuit but you can't seed on speculation. You have to go off of the circuit last year. This being the first tournament of 2012 the seeding should be determined by how teams finished last year.

It's not important if 1-8 are seeded exactly right. In fact, there's really no difference in how the pools are structured if you're the 1 seed or the 8 seed. The seeds just prevent those top teams from facing each other in pool. Gaining a higher starting seed offers no protection from being a in a pool of death.

[Captain_Relax]

Really I always feel like the number one seeds in a bracket are picked and then a random draw from that? Hence why meatballs and panic are never in the same bracket.

Who's gonna get the pool of death cause I have a feeling there will be one!!!

Just looking at the list of teams signed up, there will probably be multiple "pools of death". I can't wait for this damn tourney.

Agreed, from the looks of it this will be the first kickball tournament I've been a part of that pool play will not be a joke. If quality teams continue to sign up each pool will probably provide 2 or 3 very close games.

[Jersey3bFP]

I'm also trying to figure out how you'd seed a team like JKI over OSC and NYSH. Understandably they have made some great off season moves and will be a force this year in the circuit but you can't seed on speculation. You have to go off of the circuit last year. This being the first tournament of 2012 the seeding should be determined by how teams finished last year.

It's not important if 1-8 are seeded exactly right. In fact, there's really no difference in how the pools are structured if you're the 1 seed or the 8 seed. The seeds just prevent those top teams from facing each other in pool. Gaining a higher starting seed offers no protection from being a in a pool of death.

I disagree, obviously 1-8 have an advantage but the higher your seed the lesser the seeds are that you'll play against. It all works out with snake seeding but I'd say it's easier for a 1 seed who is going to have a higher seeded team as the number two in their pool. Looking back at the circuit championship this didn't exactly work out to perfection bc of a team like super dudes but you should be given the seed you've earned. Any way the seeds work out in SFKO it's still going to be a lights out tournament and I can't wait to get down there.

[JellyDogg]

I disagree, obviously 1-8 have an advantage but the higher your seed the lesser the seeds are that you'll play against.

It's not a serpentine draft. The top seed of each pool is ranked. The rest of the pool is basically random draw (I think they throw in some regional protection so you won't play teams in your home division in pool play). The #1 seed has the same chance to draw the toughest pool as any of the other seeds.

[Jersey3bFP]

My mistake then, I thought it was snake seeding. Then yes it doesn't matter as long as you're 1-8.

[J-Hasty]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

[kim dude]

It will be kind of weird with only 2 Va teams there. Good chance to face some new opposition.

[JellyDogg]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

I think Meatballs, JKI, OSC, NYSH, and LIU would be ranked. Sofa would be, too, if they come out. Sitch, Relax, Flying V, and a few SoFl teams (MMS, GOMK, FL) - need more info on these teams - would be in the running for the final 3-4 spots.

[JohnPWilks]

For the record. SFKO has traditionally done snake seeding, but has offered some sort of regional protection as well.

[J-Hasty]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

I think Meatballs, JKI, OSC, NYSH, and LIU would be ranked. Sofa would be, too, if they come out. Sitch, Relax, Flying V, and a few SoFl teams (MMS, GOMK, FL) - need more info on these teams - would be in the running for the final 3-4 spots.

Well I'll just speak for GOMK. GOMK is 2-0 against FL. We beat MMS in the playoffs this year, beat balls deep in the playoffs last year when there was still a balls deep. Tied the meatballs before they split and has only lost to the Meatballs or a form of the Meatballs (Pizza Fushion) in the playoffs.

So yeah I am politicking for one of those spots!

[Captain_Relax]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

I think Meatballs, JKI, OSC, NYSH, and LIU would be ranked. Sofa would be, too, if they come out. Sitch, Relax, Flying V, and a few SoFl teams (MMS, GOMK, FL) - need more info on these teams - would be in the running for the final 3-4 spots.

Relax doesn't have any Circuit experience but played similar, IKF rules, in LSKO. LSKO is really the only thing on a national scale that we've won, beating MB 1-0. Almost every tournament we've played in whether that be FC, LSKO or SFKO we've finished top 8 or better so I would like to think we would be a Top 8 team but I could see either way.

[krabbas]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

I think Meatballs, JKI, OSC, NYSH, and LIU would be ranked. Sofa would be, too, if they come out. Sitch, Relax, Flying V, and a few SoFl teams (MMS, GOMK, FL) - need more info on these teams - would be in the running for the final 3-4 spots.

Well I'll just speak for GOMK. GOMK is 2-0 against FL. We beat MMS in the playoffs this year, beat balls deep in the playoffs last year when there was still a balls deep. Tied the meatballs before they split and has only lost to the Meatballs or a form of the Meatballs (Pizza Fushion) in the playoffs.

So yeah I am politicking for one of those spots!

^THIS is the reason why I think arbitrary seeding is not the way to go. Teams that have a greater message board presence receive higher seeds simply because they are more vocal. (see Flying V in 2011).

In my opinion, every tournament until the Cup should be randomly seeded or at least World Cup style draws. It's the fairest way to do it.

[Captain_Relax]

So with that beining said who do you guys think is the 1-8 teams?

I think Meatballs, JKI, OSC, NYSH, and LIU would be ranked. Sofa would be, too, if they come out. Sitch, Relax, Flying V, and a few SoFl teams (MMS, GOMK, FL) - need more info on these teams - would be in the running for the final 3-4 spots.

Well I'll just speak for GOMK. GOMK is 2-0 against FL. We beat MMS in the playoffs this year, beat balls deep in the playoffs last year when there was still a balls deep. Tied the meatballs before they split and has only lost to the Meatballs or a form of the Meatballs (Pizza Fushion) in the playoffs.

So yeah I am politicking for one of those spots!

^THIS is the reason why I think arbitrary seeding is not the way to go. Teams that have a greater message board presence receive higher seeds simply because they are more vocal. (see Flying V in 2011).
In my opinion, every tournament until the Cup should be randomly seeded or at least World Cup style draws. It's the fairest way to do it.

True to a degree, I don't think it can be random though. Most of the people running these tournaments are well aware who the best teams are. Sure it gets gray 5-15 but the top teams have earned a spot as a seed by playing well in past events. Of course each year and each tournament there will be a team or two that comes out of nowhere to make some noise but IMO you have to reward the people who've played well enough for their team to be recognized.

[krabbas]

They get rewarded at the Circuit Cup when they get higher seeds based on how many points they've accumulated.

[krabbas]

Basically, you're giving teams easier schedules in the morning time because of past success. And giving teams without the same success in the past a harder schedule... It'd be like MLB giving the St. Louis Cardinals (Meatballs) the easiest schedule in 2012, because they won the World Series in 2011. MLB would also end up giving easier schedules to Boston and New York because they are always hyped up in the media (the Flying Vs on the message board) and why not give an easier schedule to the Marlins too because they signed a bunch of free agents (the JKI Deeps).

[Captain_Relax]

Yeah but then you mess up those seedings with a random seeding of tournaments throughout the year. At least seeding the Top 8 you avoid the top teams being in the same pool and having to match up against each other. I don't think you can just discredit last year and past years performances.

[Captain_Relax]

Basically, you're giving teams easier schedules in the morning time because of past success. And giving teams without the same success in the past a harder schedule... It'd be like MLB giving the St. Louis Cardinals (Meatballs) the easiest schedule in 2012, because they won the World Series in 2011. MLB would also end up giving easier schedules to Boston and New York because they are always hyped up in the media (the Flying Vs on the message board) and why not give an easier schedule to the Marlins too because they signed a bunch of free agents (the JKI Deeps).

I definitely get what you're saying but still think that you get what you have earned and that's fair. I don't think that JKID should be seeded super high but at the same time they do deserve some respect based on the players they've acquired. The MLB plays 162 games so over time it'll even out, in kickball a team may only travel to 2-5 tournaments (including the last one) so if you end up getting screwed a couple times it makes a huge impact.

[krabbas]

Yeah but then you mess up those seedings with a random seeding of tournaments throughout the year. At least seeding the Top 8 you avoid the top teams being in the same pool and having to match up against each other. I don't think you can just discredit last year and past years performances.

Why is it so important to decrease the odds of the top teams having difficult pools, when that means you increase the odds of the lower tiered teams having difficult pools? Why are the top teams a protected class? Does #occupywallstreet know about this?

2011 should have no bearing on how seeds in 2012 are determined. But even if you did want to rank based on 2011 results, there isn't really a clear/fair way to do it. Like you said, beyond the top couple teams, it's a toss up. Which benefits the teams that have a more vocal presence on the boards.

[Jared It Up!]

Basically, you're giving teams easier schedules in the morning time because of past success. And giving teams without the same success in the past a harder schedule... It'd be like MLB giving the St. Louis Cardinals (Meatballs) the easiest schedule in 2012, because they won the World Series in 2011. MLB would also end up giving easier schedules to Boston and New York because they are always hyped up in the media (the Flying Vs on the message board) and why not give an easier schedule to the Marlins too because they signed a bunch of free agents (the JKI Deeps).

you can't compare a tournament to a full season, it just doesn't work that way. You forgot to include that higher seed in most sports gets an easy schedule after the season in the playoffs. Baseball is a tough one because only 4 teams make it.

It is fine to seed in my opinion. With random, you can theoretically end up with the top 5 teams in one pool and another pool can be the bottom 5 teams. At the end of pool play, you could have the 4th and 5th place team not in single elim. That doesn't seem right to me, plus, the circuit offers money for the top teams that accumulate circuit points, so it would make the point champion luck of the draw.

[Captain_Relax]

Why is it so important to decrease the odds of the top teams having difficult pools, when that means you increase the odds of the lower tiered teams having difficult pools? Why are the top teams a protected class? Does #occupywallstreet know about this?

2011 should have no bearing on how seeds in 2012 are determined. But even if you did want to rank based on 2011 results, there isn't really a clear/fair way to do it. Like you said, beyond the top couple teams, it's a toss up. Which benefits the teams that have a more vocal presence on the boards.

Because if 3 of the top 5 are in the same pool, 1 may not even get out of pool play, where you may have another pool of 5 new teams who all suck and two get to advance. This shouldn't be an everyone's created equal type of thing. Teams seeded based on past results and general knowledge is the best way to get the best teams to the final round, which I think is what we all want. Sure it's tough to rank the last few seeds if you're doing an 8 seed tournament but even then, if you're on the edge of receiving the 5-8 you're going to be in a similar position as the 9-12.

[krabbas]

Why is it so important to decrease the odds of the top teams having difficult pools, when that means you increase the odds of the lower tiered teams having difficult pools? Why are the top teams a protected class? Does #occupywallstreet know about this?

2011 should have no bearing on how seeds in 2012 are determined. But even if you did want to rank based on 2011 results, there isn't really a clear/fair way to do it. Like you said, beyond the top couple teams, it's a toss up. Which benefits the teams that have a more vocal presence on the boards.

Because if 3 of the top 5 are in the same pool, 1 may not even get out of pool play, where you may have another pool of 5 new teams who all suck and two get to advance. This shouldn't be an everyone's created equal type of thing. Teams seeded based on past results and general knowledge is the best way to get the best teams to the final round, which I think is what we all want. Sure it's tough to rank the last few seeds if you're doing an 8 seed tournament but even then, if you're on the edge of receiving the 5-8 you're going to be in a similar position as the 9-12.

Last time I checked, everyone pays the same amount of money to enter the tournament, so why shouldn't they be treated equally?

The top teams are going to make it to the final round regardless. They don't need the tournament organizers giving them any additional help.

[krabbas]

Basically, you're giving teams easier schedules in the morning time because of past success. And giving teams without the same success in the past a harder schedule... It'd be like MLB giving the St. Louis Cardinals (Meatballs) the easiest schedule in 2012, because they won the World Series in 2011. MLB would also end up giving easier schedules to Boston and New York because they are always hyped up in the media (the Flying Vs on the message board) and why not give an easier schedule to the Marlins too because they signed a bunch of free agents (the JKI Deeps).

you can't compare a tournament to a full season, it just doesn't work that way. You forgot to include that higher seed in most sports gets an easy schedule after the season in the playoffs. Baseball is a tough one because only 4 teams make it.

It is fine to seed in my opinion. With random, you can theoretically end up with the top 5 teams in one pool and another pool can be the bottom 5 teams. At the end of pool play, you could have the 4th and 5th place team not in single elim. That doesn't seem right to me, plus, the circuit offers money for the top teams that accumulate circuit points, so it would make the point champion luck of the draw.

You're right. you can't compare a full season to this. After the end of a full season, there is black and white criteria that determines who gets the easier schedule and that's wins and losses... Compared the a single kickball tournament where you sometimes just have a guy saying, "I think this team is better, so I'm going to give them a better schedule."

[kim dude]

Based on my tourney experience I haven't really seen too many instances where teams have really been punished with their pool selection (outside of Skittles in VBKO last year).

[JellyDogg]

Spreading out the top teams is better for everyone, not just the top teams. The less any pool is stacked with top teams, the more "winnable" games there are for everyone in pool, the greater the opportunity for each team to make it to single elims.