[Rules] Change Log to Rule Book v.2012

[admin]

This is the official CHANGE LOG for the Circuit Rule Book v.2012.

We will be posting the final PDF of the Rule Book soon. However, we wanted everyone to see the changes compared to v.2011 since it's ready.

CHANGE LOG v.2012:
http://bit.ly/K365Rules2012ChangeLog

Kickball365 Rules Committee

[Trey it Up]

No encroachment update?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[admin]

No encroachment update?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

I believe so; however we might not have added it to the change log. Will check again tonight. Also, the RC found one other item we needed to tweak so we'll be sure to include that as well.

Admin


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.856603,-77.040489

[Trey it Up]

By chance is there a clarification on when a play is dead and when a player can and cannot continue to advance to the next base? For example as the rule reads, a player can be past 1B but not actively moving towards 2B when the Pitcher returns to the mound with the ball. I have seen numerous occasions where the baserunner begins running on to 2B after the Pitcher has the ball on the mound and is awarded that base. As the rule is written, it seems to me that if a runner is not actively moving towards that base, it shouldn't matter that he/she has already rounded first. Refs seem to interpret the rule in such a way that simply being between two bases is enough to warrant continuation towards the next base--regardless of whether the runner is actively going towards the other base or not at the time that the play is dead.

Is this rule clarified in this update?

[JellyDogg]

9.9.12 Once the Pitcher possesses the ball within the Pitcher’s Circle, a Baserunner must return to the base lastreached, regardless of the Baserunner’s proximity to the next base, unless:
9.9.12.1 The runner, prior to the Pitcher possessing the ball, is in forward motion towards the next base;
OR
9.9.12.2.The Pitcher, subsequent to receiving the ball, attempts to make a play on a Baserunner.

[Trey it Up]

The 'forward motion' part isn't really watched closely.

[kim dude]

The 'forward motion' part isn't really watched closely.

You asked and it has been clarified, what's your point?

[Trey it Up]

Probably that the 'forward motion' part should be watched.

[kim dude]

Probably that the 'forward motion' part should be watched.

There's lots of stuff that should be watched. It's a fairly easy call for the 1st base ref to make since that is generally where it occurs.

[JellyDogg]

I think we're all in agreement that the refs should be watching out for anything that involves compliance (or non-compliance) with the rules.

[Trey it Up]

Probably that the 'forward motion' part should be watched.

There's lots of stuff that should be watched. It's a fairly easy call for the 1st base ref to make since that is generally where it occurs.

Agreed. Do 1B refs know that they're supposed to be watching for that? Most 1B refs I've seen think their job begins and ends with calling 'out' and 'safe' at first.

[Typod]

That's because they have the wrong refs there. 1B is most crucial and always gets worst refs

[JellyDogg]

This is easy to spot as a home plate ref, too. The pitcher and runner are both in your field of vision.

[Typod]

Still think best ref should go to 1b

[kim dude]

Probably that the 'forward motion' part should be watched.

There's lots of stuff that should be watched. It's a fairly easy call for the 1st base ref to make since that is generally where it occurs.

Agreed. Do 1B refs know that they're supposed to be watching for that? Most 1B refs I've seen think their job begins and ends with calling 'out' and 'safe' at first.

Now that it's pretty explicit in the rule book it's simple to add it to the cheat sheet that refs are given.

[JohnPWilks]

FYI,

The log has been updated indicating the change for requirements for the catcher.

A Catcher may not cross in front of the Kicker nor be positioned outside the Catcher’s Zone until the ball is kicked or until the Kicker has let the ball pass.

No part of a Catcher’s body may cross in front of the Kicker’s back hip nor be positioned outside the Catcher’s Zone until the ball is kicked or until the Kicker has let the ball pass.

[Trey it Up]

I think that's a fair rule.

[JohnPWilks]

I think that's a fair rule.

Definitely a game changer in my opinion.

[Catch-22]

I think that's a fair rule.

Definitely a game changer in my opinion.

That's a big rule change. The refs are going to need to be really watching for it and enforcing it at SFKO b/c a lot of catchers are not going to be used to playing like that.

[Trey it Up]

This rule, if enforced correctly, will make quite a few Catchers who pretended to be elite by encroaching just average.

[Catch-22]

This rule, if enforced correctly, will make quite a few Catchers who pretended to be elite by encroaching just average.

It's going to make playing catcher more difficult for everyone.

[Trey it Up]

This rule, if enforced correctly, will make quite a few Catchers who pretended to be elite by encroaching just average.

It's going to make playing catcher more difficult for everyone.

I disagree. BK, Ad-Rock, and I have always played Catcher the right way. This rule doesn't effect us at all.

[Catch-22]

This rule, if enforced correctly, will make quite a few Catchers who pretended to be elite by encroaching just average.

It's going to make playing catcher more difficult for everyone.

I disagree. BK, Ad-Rock, and I have always played Catcher the right way. This rule doesn't effect us at all.

Hahaha, good one

[Trey it Up]

Some Catchers have big enough arms to not need to cheat. Others felt it was necessary to block the ball off of the Kicker's foot in order to make a play. The Catchers with big arms will remain good. The cheaters will end up in the outfield.

[JellyDogg]

We'll see what the net effect is. While the catcher will have to be back a little farther than last year, the increase in the size of the kicking box means the catcher can be a little farther up the 3B line than last year, too.

[Trey it Up]

We'll see what the net effect is. While the catcher will have to be back a little farther than last year, the increase in the size of the kicking box means the catcher can be a little farther up the 3B line than last year, too.

Agreed. It'll make Catchers with an arm that much tougher to play against.

[AD-ROCK]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

[Hollywood B]

I'm failing to see what the big difference is with this rule? Hasn't the catcher always had to be behind the kicker?

[Trey it Up]

I'm failing to see what the big difference is with this rule? Hasn't the catcher always had to be behind the kicker?

The way the old rule was enforced (not written), the Catcher's torso had to be behind the Kicker's torso. So a lot of Catchers were keeping their torso behind the kicker, but reaching their hand in front of the kicker and blocking the ball down.

[Hollywood B]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

I don't see why it should be any harder for refs to see if the catcher is behind the kicker.

[AD-ROCK]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

I don't see why it should be any harder for refs to see if the catcher is behind the kicker.

What I see happening is every deflection a catcher makes the kicking team will throw a fit about the fingernail of the catcher being in front of the kicker. I've seen it time and time again that a ref will be swaying into saying "they are right, a catcher cant make that play without encroaching". The rule just makes it more obvious than it has ever been before.

[Catch-22]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

I don't see why it should be any harder for refs to see if the catcher is behind the kicker.

They never really called the rule tightly before. Now it's written with stricter limitations. So if the rule suddenly is getting enforced, it will force catchers to be a half step back from where they used to be. In theory, now, not even a fingertip of the catcher should break the plane of the back of the kicker's hip. Despite Trey's claims, I've never seen any catcher play that far back off the kicker.

[Hollywood B]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

I don't see why it should be any harder for refs to see if the catcher is behind the kicker.

What I see happening is every deflection a catcher makes the kicking team will throw a fit about the fingernail of the catcher being in front of the kicker. I've seen it time and time again that a ref will be swaying into saying "they are right, a catcher cant make that play without encroaching". The rule just makes it more obvious than it has ever been before.

I hear ya. I just feel like usually when there is a deflection or the catcher makes a catch, its because the kicker fouled the ball off with some backspin, or the catcher bursts out of the box after the kick and makes a play. I think I've only seen 1-2 catchers reach their hands around while their body was actually still behind the kicker.

[Hollywood B]

I just don't see how the new catcher rule will be properly monitored. It will either be called incorrectly on every catcher deflection or not called at all. Unless there's an additional ref standing to the side of the plate watching the kicker and catcher.

As Trey stated I've been playing the position correctly my whole career, but this rule still scares me as I think it will be called(or not called) incorrectly the vast majority of the time which can be a complete game changer.

I don't see why it should be any harder for refs to see if the catcher is behind the kicker.

They never really called the rule tightly before. Now it's written with stricter limitations. So if the rule suddenly is getting enforced, it will force catchers to be a half step back from where they used to be. In theory, now, not even a fingertip of the catcher should break the plane of the back of the kicker's hip. Despite Trey's claims, I've never seen any catcher play that far back off the kicker.

Refs should be looking for a catcher really reaching out past the kicker then. Not if a catchers fingertip or kneecap crosses the back hip while both players are in full stride. That will be impossible to call accurately.

[Trey it Up]

The way this rule is written is how old school Catchers have played for years. Every Catcher encroachment rule in every league I've ever played in has clearly stated that the Catcher (which is the sum of all of his/her parts) should be behind the Kicker (which is the sum of all of his/her parts) until the ball is kicked. I can tell you for a fact that this is how I've always played. I know that Ad-Rock and BK play the same way. There might be some others that have never habitually encroached, too. But at the elite level, they're few and far between.

[Catch-22]

When Trey's done talking up his new LiU teammate, kissing Billy's butt, and calling himself elite, maybe we can get back to the point of this thread about how this new rule may impact the game and the refs' effectiveness at enforcing this rule.

[Trey it Up]

One way this rule will impact the game is that no Catcher on OSC will make a play again. At least you have Pat, though.

[2_easy]

A fair and needed rule change. Can't wait to see it in effect and to hear all the feedback after SoFL Open.

[Catch-22]

One way this rule will impact the game is that no Catcher on OSC will make a play again. At least you have Pat, though.

Good to know. Feel free to try your heel click tactic again to induce encroachment. It worked so well against us last time

[Trey it Up]

No need to induce encroachment anymore. Encroaching Catchers have been neutralized by the rules now.